This is what happens when rhetoric gets out of control

[The Great Catpiss]

What's all this talk about rhetoric? Maybe counterstrike is to blame. Lets ban counterstrike!

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by illavbill

Oh lookey here.... "OH, the right doesn't have dangerous rhetoric"



Joe Wilson 'You Lie' Slogan Etched Onto Line Of Assault Rifle Components

Even if the shooter in AZ had absolutely no influence by the divisive nature of our political discourse in this country, crap like this is absolutely absurd. Cross hairs, "second amendment remedies", take them out, blah blah blah is disgusting and dangerous.

this is the ultimate in fake outrage, its a tiny engraving. all this does is give out free advertising to the business.

[illavbill]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

this is the ultimate in fake outrage, its a tiny engraving. all this does is give out free advertising to the business.

I know but It's still stupid and just more examples of the right doing and saying things that are to most of us just that, stupid. I think its stupid as hell and just a ploy for money/advertisement just like the crap a lot of people on the right will say for votes but they don't think of any possible negatives that could come of it. Joe Wilson is an embarassment. Who the hell else interrupts the President with shit like that? And then to engrave it on the lower of a gun, come on.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Dear friends,

I found it both funny and disturbing that apparently so many of our conservative friends on this forum are responding to this thread by saying the other side does it too, as if that made using violent rhetoric and/or gun imagery in politics any less wrong.

Our conservative friends on this thread have responded by claiming the other side does it too, personally attacking one particular member, throwing about general insults, debating unrelated issues, and arguing about the thread title and tags. I see very little (if any) acknowledgement from our conservative friends that conservative representatives like Sharron Angle and Michelle Bachmann, conservative congressional candidates like Jesse Kelly, and conservative political commentators like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck have repeatedly been, intentionally or unintentionally, using violent rhetoric and invoking firearm imagery.

Any or all of this violent rhetoric and invocation of gun imagery may or may not have inspired this particular shooting, but I believe it is undeniable that the right wing has in recent years been engaging in a great deal of this violent rhetoric and invoking a significant amount of gun imagery. I also believe that this type of rhetoric and imagery could possibly contribute to an atmosphere that might encourage incidents like this to occur.

Ms. Palin's Facebook note, which she promoted with a Twitter message that said "Don't retreat, RELOAD", contains words such as "aim", "target", "salvo", "in a fight", and was accompanied with a picture of a map indicating the pro-health care politicians that she was looking to defeat marked with crosshairs, one of whom was liberal representative Gabrielle Giffords, who was subsequently shot through the head. Months later in another Twitter message Ms. Palin referred to those crosshair map markings as "bullseye icons".

Ms. Angle and Ms. Bachmann:

“You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years. I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.” - Sharron Angle

“I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us, having a revolution every now and then is a good thing, and the people — we the people — are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country. And I think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States.” - Michele Bachmann

Mr. Kelly, Ms. Gifford's conservative congressional opponent in the 2010 election, promoted an event for June 12th of that year with the following words: "Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly".

In the past, prominent conservative political commentator Mr. Beck joked about poisoning liberal representative Nancy Pelosi, and strangling and killing liberal filmmaker Michael Moore. The day after the Arizona shootings where Mr. Beck issued a statement against violence, Mr. Beck's website showed a side banner image of Mr. Beck holding a handgun.

In my personal opinion, it is wrong when either side invokes firearm imagery and violent rhetoric, but it is a fact that two wrongs do not make a right. And as far as elected representatives, congressional nominees and political commentators with wide distribution of their messages go, in recent years the right wing appears to be engaging in this type of firearm imagery and violent rhetoric far more than comparable figures on the left.

To ignore or deny that elected conservative representatives like Ms. Angle and Ms. Bachmann, conservative congressional nominees such as Mr. Kelly, and prominent conservative political commentators like Ms. Palin and Mr. Beck repeatedly use violent rhetoric and invoke firearm imagery, is just disingenuous at best.

I think it would be nice if, between slinging general insults, personally engaging one forum member in argument, debating a decade old presidential election, and nitpicking about the thread title and thread tags, if our conservative friends on this forum could find the time to denounce (or even to simply acknowledge) this divisive, violent rhetoric and firearm imagery being repeatedly used by numerous conservative representatives, nominees, and political commentators and that this type of rhetoric and imagery might damage the political atmosphere and possibly lead to the type of violence demonstrated in the Arizona shooting.

Thank you very much for reading my post.

Thank you for posting something worth my time. I share your thoughts on this subject and people who fail to see the hate that has been brewing since 9/11 are seriously in the clouds. I love some of you but you really need to wake up.

[gipper]

A nut job commits a heinous act and what does the lib media and politicians do? They condemn talk radio, Sarah Palin, Tea Party, and conservative rhetoric. Then they want to enact more gun laws and place controls on speech.

What can we conclude from this? Well lets see....
1. They are delusional for placing blame on those not remotely involved.
2. They ignore the Bill of Rights since they want to further limit gun and speech rights.
3. They have no shame or respect for the murdered and injured by playing underhanded politics with a tragic event.

So, we can conclude the libs are delusional shameful tyrants.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by gipper

A nut job commits a heinous act and what does the lib media and politicians do? They condemn talk radio, Sarah Palin, Tea Party, and conservative rhetoric. Then they want to enact more gun laws and place controls on speech.

What can we conclude from this? Well lets see....
1. They are delusional for placing blame on those not remotely involved.
2. They ignore the Bill of Rights since they want to further limit gun and speech rights.
3. They have no shame or respect for the murdered and injured by playing underhanded politics with a tragic event.

So, we can conclude the libs are delusional shameful tyrants.

All you speak of is division. That's a terrible way to go through life.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Who does Sharon Angle represent?

She represents the type of person that the Nevada Republican Party and the Republican voters of Nevada wanted to represent them in the Senate.

But, thanks so much for ignoring the point of the entire post, it's such a pleasure to have such stimulating intellectual exchanges with someone like the poster above. I appreciate that conservative friend of mine for taking the time to correct me and ignore the rest of the post and the point I was trying to make.

Ms. Angle was not a representative for the people of Nevada, she merely represented the type of candidate the Nevada Republican party and Nevada's Republican voters wanted as their representative in the Senate. Ms. Angle served as a Republican member of the Nevada Assembly from 1999 to 2007 and she ran unsuccessfully as the Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada in 2010. Thanks for correcting me. Ms. Angle was not a representative, she was the Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada.

Apparently, if I had referred to her as the Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada instead of a representative, this particular conservative friend of mine would have had absolutely no response at all to my post. And of course, no acknowledgement from my conservative friend that a conservative representative, conservative candidates, and conservative political commentators repeatedly engage in violent rhetoric and use gun imagery, and that this type of rhetoric and imagery might possibly contribute to a violent atmosphere that could lead to incidents like the Arizona shooting.

I will take the silence of my conservative friend on the rest of my post as tacit agreement that a conservative representative, conservative candidates, and conservative political commentators DO INDEED use words and phrases like "reload", "aim", "target", "salvo", "in a fight", "fight back", "fight back hard", "Second Amendment remedies", "take Harry Reid out", "armed and dangerous" and "Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16", as well as talk about poisoning a liberal representative, strangling and killing a liberal filmmaker, post images on their websites of themselves holding handguns, and use crosshairs that they themselves refer to as "bullseye icons" on maps indicating the location of representatives, one of whom who was later shot through the head. That is all unquestionably true.

But Ms. Angle was not a representative, she was merely the Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada. She would have been a conservative representative, the Republican party and Republican voters in Nevada wanted her to be their representative, but she lost to Harry Reid, so she is now only the former Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada. Thank you so much for the correction because that is a huge difference.

Ms. Angle was not a representative, she was merely the Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Nevada.

This particular "response" to my post confirms everything that I had suspected about the intelligence and honesty about most of the conservatives on this forum. I will go back and correct my post, thanks so much for pointing out my error and ignoring every single point that I was trying to make. I appreciate it, my conservative friend.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

Thank you for posting something worth my time. I share your thoughts on this subject and people who fail to see the hate that has been brewing since 9/11 are seriously in the clouds. I love some of you but you really need to wake up.

Thank you.

[gipper]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

All you speak of is division. That's a terrible way to go through life.

Really? Can you tell me what is incorrect or untrue with my statement?

And, what political party/ideology has chosen to politicize this terrible event?

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by gipper

Really? Can you tell me what is incorrect or untrue with my statement?

Everything you've said is clinging to the severity of what some progressives may want, eventhough in actual reality-based truth it's far from any likelyhood in the near future. You're no better than the people you condemn.

Originally Posted by gipper

And, what political party/ideology has chosen to politicize this terrible event?

Both sides are propaganding and politicizing this in their own ways. The failure to recognize that is your own, most likely due to an ignorance you continually like to display in this place.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Thank you.

America has been consumed by fear since 9/11 and we've let our entire society become corrupt by it. I've said from Day 1 things will get much worse before they get better. Incidents like this are only the tipping point of where this fear will take us.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

America has been consumed by fear since 9/11 and we've let our entire society become corrupt by it. I've said from Day 1 things will get much worse before they get better. Incidents like this are only the tipping point of where this fear will take us.

Agreed, and you were quite prescient with your prediction.

Both sides have used violent rhetoric, both sides have invoked gun imagery, both sides are wrong to do this, but to me it certainly seems that one side has clearly doing it to an extreme, trying to frighten people with visions of "death panels" and secret Muslims taking away their freedom.

-

"You and I, we will solemnly resolve here to do everything in our power to restore freedom and to send that cart of socialists down to where they belong, in the river down there. We will see freedom once more restored, and Washington, DC taken apart so that it no longer is a threat on American freedom and liberty" - Rep. Todd Akin, R-MO

-

"If I could start a country with a bunch of people, they’d be the folks who were standing with us the last few days. Let’s hope we don’t have to do that! Let’s beat that other side to a pulp! Let’s take them out. Let’s chase them down. There’s going to be a reckoning!" - Rep. Steve King, R-IA

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"If I could issue hunting permits, I would officially declare today opening day for liberals. The season would extend through November 2 and have no limits on how many taken as we desperately need to 'thin' the herd." - California Republican primary candidate Brad Goehring

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"Let me tell you what you've got to do. You've got to make the fellow scared to come out of his house. That's the only way that you're going to win. That's the only way you're going to get these people's attention." - Rep. Allen West, R-FL as a candidate speaking about his opponent

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"We can get new faces in. Whether it's my face or not, I pray to God that I see new faces. And if we don't see new faces, I'm cleaning my guns and getting ready for the big show. And I'm serious about that, and I bet you are, too. But I know none of us want to go that far yet, and we can do it with our vote." - Indiana Republican primary candidate Richard Behney

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Audience Member: And I wanna say that I’m a proud right-wing terrorist. …

Rep. Wally Herger, R-CA: Amen. God bless you. There’s a great American.

-

"We have a constitutional remedy here and the Framers says if that don't work, revolution. If the government is not producing the results or has become destructive to the ends of our liberties, we have a right to get rid of that government and to get rid of it by any means necessary." - Texas Republican candidate Stephen Broden

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"We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition." - Rep. Gregg Harper, R-MS

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“And I don’t care how this gets painted by the mainstream media. I don’t care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced that the most important thing the founding fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will. I’ve never in my life thought that the day would come where I would tell individual citizens that you are responsible for being the militia that the founding fathers designed – they were very specific. You need to be prepared to fight tyranny: whether it comes from outside or it comes from inside.” - Radio host Joyce Kaufman

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"My only regret with Tim McVeigh is that he did not go to the New York Times building" - Commentator Ann Coulter

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"I say round liberals up and hang em' high. When I hear someone's in the civil rights business, I oil up my AR-25" - Radio host Michael Savage

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"Those crazies in Montana who say 'we're going to kill ATF agents because the UN's going to take over.' Well, they're beginning to have a case." - Commentator Dick Morris

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"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus--living fossils--so we we'll never forget what these people stood for." - Radio host Rush Limbaugh

-

(Remember folks, in the opinion of some of my conservative friends on this thread, all those conservative representatives, candidates, and commentators listed above are irrelevant, their words do not have consequences, no one is responsible for the things they say, violent rhetoric and gun imagery used by prominent people in the public forum always falls on deaf ears, nothing any national figure says could ever possibly influence anyone on any level, and events like the Arizona shooting occur in a vacuum.)

[thatguyoverthere]

Broward Republicans go gunning
Congressional candidate draws fire for shooting at target bearing rival's initials
October 08, 2009|By Anthony Man, Political Writer

HALLANDALE BEACH — Armed with handguns and AK-47 and AR-15 assault rifles, the members of the Southeast Broward Republican Club abandoned the usual community center for their club meeting this week, and gathered at a gun range where they fired bullets instead of political bombshells.

The aims, said club president Ed Napolitano, were to have fun, educate club members who were new to shooting — and send a political message.

"Why are we here? Because we're Republicans and we appreciate the fact that we have the right to bear arms," Napolitano said. "Without the Second Amendment, I don't think the other amendments would hold up. I think they would just be suggestions that the government would decide to do whatever they want."

Scott Spages, a conservative Davie political activist who has managed campaigns for issues and candidates, stopped at the Pembroke Gun and Range on Tuesday night. Spages said he wasn't concerned that images of Republicans firing weapons might misfire in Broward County, where registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by better than 2:1.

"In Broward County, because it's a liberal county, anything that a conservative Republican does is a turnoff to them," Spages said. "So if I believe in lower taxes, it turns them off. So then the greater question becomes, do you want to change your positions to appease the other side or are you gong to stick to your principles? I want to stick to my principles."

Some images from the event could prove incendiary.

Though most of the targets of gunfire were standard gun-range fare — large silhouettes of a human figure — a few shooters used large color posters instead. They depicted a menacing figure, adorned in a kaffiyeh, the kind of headdress worn by the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. The person in the picture was holding a rocket-propelled grenade.

One of the shooters at the Tuesday evening event was Robert Lowry, a Republican candidate hoping to unseat U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Weston. Lowry's target had the letters "DWS" next to the silhouette head.

Lowry said he didn't know who wrote Wasserman Schultz' initials on his target, but said he knew they were there before he started shooting. He initially described it as a "joke," but after answering several questions he said it "was a mistake" to use a target labeled "DWS."

Jonathan Beeton, communications director for Wasserman Schultz, declined to comment. But Lowry's action was condemned by Ryan Rudominer, press secretary for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

"It's exactly this extremist and sexist behavior from the Republican Party of No that has redefined what it means to be outdated and out-of-touch," he said.

Charles Zelden, a history and legal studies professor specializing in politics and voting at Nova Southeastern University, said Lowry's action would undoubtedly help Wasserman Schultz raise campaign money and make some Republicans question his judgment.

"Politically, it was foolish," he said.

Broward Republicans go gunning - Sun Sentinel

Dean Allen’s Machine Gun Social
September 8, 2009 by Gary Coats
Filed under Press Release
5 Comments
Greenville – Republican Candidate for Adjutant General of South Carolina, Dean Allen, said today that his Machine gun Social fundraiser scheduled for September 26, 2009 is a go. The campaign will give away an AK-47 (semi-automatic) after the event. Because South Carolina law forbids the campaign from holding a raffle anyone who wants a free opportunity to receive the AK-47 is encouraged to visit Allen Arms Indoor Range at 1210 Poinsett Hwy in Greenville beginning Tuesday.
Dean Allen said, “This event is all about celebrating our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. We are celebrating these rights in the hopes the liberals in this country never get the chance to take our Second Amendment rights away from us.”
For the opportunity to win the AK-47 all folks have to do is visit Allen Arms Indoor Range in Greenville and fill out a free entry form,” Allen added. “You do not have to buy a ticket to the Machine gun Social to win the AK-47 but you do have to be a resident of South Carolina and meet all the legal requirements necessary to own a weapon. We do encourage participants to be present at Allen Arms at 5:15PM on September 26 when we draw the winning name.”
“The Machine gun Social itself is from 1:00PM – 5:00PM on September 26 at Allen Arms. It’s going to be a fun day filled with barbecue, music and of course the opportunity to fire a weapon on full auto,” Allen said. “I can’t think of a better way to celebrate our right to keep and bear arms.”

Dean Allen’s Machine Gun Social : The Conservativist

I think these two stories speak for themselves.

[thatguyoverthere]

Demonstrating the gun fetish of Ms. Palin's unaffiliated supporters. Not counting the "Girls With Guns" ad and the picture of Obama with the crosshairs just to the left, I counted eleven pictures of Ms. Palin holding firearms.

Gov Palin: Don't Retreat. Reload!!! | US for Palin

Some examples:

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Who is relevant? I mean, the sheriff of Pima County is mentioned...why is he relevant? Olbermann was mentioned...why is he relevant? Must be nice to be able to determine who is relevant and who isn't.

Donkey,

I'm not reading JaJae's comments, but I will assume that he was referring to the quotes in my post.

*sigh* JaJae and Kinggovernor's baseless and angry attacks on me is what I should expect, that will teach me to try and be nice. (It's very likely that one of them didn't even bother to read my whole post, but that wouldn't stop him from responding to it. It's happened before. Just sad.) At least you are here to provide some balance, and for that, I'm grateful.

If I were to speak to JaJae, and expected that he would ever consider my words instead of ignoring them in favor of blindly lashing out at me in anger, I would say this - The quotes in my original post and the ones above are perfectly relevant to this thread because that's what this thread is about: the rhetoric that is out of control.

Believe me, I'd absolutely love to respond to them in equal measure, and match their fury with my own, even exceed it. When I take the time to carefully construct a response and try to be as polite as possible but am only met with blind fury and personal insults, it's deeply frustrating. But, when I think about the animus in his, Kinggovernors', CharlieK's, and gippers responses, I do understand why they are so angry.

The truth hurts.

It's very sad that they feel like they have to respond in such a way, and continually pass up opportunities to learn from one another instead of the same old same old fighting that bores everyone who is familiar with this forum to tears and drives so many other quality members away from it entirely. There are conservatives here that I truly respect and have cordial relationships with, even though we might at times strenuously disagree. I won't name all of them, for fear of embarrassing them, but I will give an example. Even though our first interaction was a fairly heated argument, I don't think Swift would be too mad if I said that I now actually consider him a friend. (If you do get mad at me saying that, Swift, just let me know and I'll edit it out!) I believe that it is possible to find common ground with your political opponents and to learn from one another, to disagree without being disagreeable. One of my roommates for many years was a dyed in the wool Libertarian, and we are still good pals.

If someone doesn't like me, that's fine. If they don't want to give my arguments consideration, that is their right and I support that right. Just ignore me. Feeling that they have to respond with bitterness and personal insults to forum members whom they have absolutely no intention of engaging in a good faith debate with, apparently just to show off for the other forum readers, is an empty and useless gesture, in my humble opinion. I am only a guy over there, my opinion is not worth boiling their blood over, I'm sure they would agree!

I would tell JaJae, Kinggovernor, and the rest that words do indeed have consequences, and people on one side of the political spectrum should be prepared to take responsibility for their excessively violent rhetoric and invocations of gun imagery if it happens that gun violence is unleashed upon a politician of the opposing side. Even if they aren't prepared to take responsibility for possibly poisoning the political atmosphere, those people that align themselves with their side should at least be honest enough to simply acknowledge that many prominent figures on the right are indeed engaging in excessively violent rhetoric and invoking gun imagery. But, apparently this is too much to ask of most of the conservatives on this forum. Unfortunately, it's not at all surprising. Anger, meanness, and denial of the obvious truth seem to be their modus operandi, doesn't it?

I've said it before, and it looks like I have to say it again. This violent rhetoric and gun imagery may not have contributed anything at all to this tragedy, but many prominent conservatives DID engage in violent rhetoric and invoke the images of firearms, and it might be possible that that type of rhetoric and imagery could contribute to tragedies like this one. It's just the truth, and to deny it is silly. In my personal opinion, the best way to avoid any future tragedies is to tone down the rhetoric and refrain from the constant fear mongering, sweeping demonization of the opposition, and continual invocation of gun imagery. To me, it seems like the most responsible way to approach the situation, but the first step is to simply acknowledge that it is happening.

I didn't put all those quotes by Ms. Palin, Ms. Angle, Ms. Bachmann, et al. to score political points out of a tragedy, that would be obscene. I did it to try to get those who align themselves with the conservative movement to simply acknowledge that many prominent figures on the right are excessively engaging in this type of violent rhetoric and invocation of gun imagery, and to hopefully condemn it. Apparently they choose to not believe it or acknowledge it, even when shown example after example. Instead, they choose to treat me as if I just made up those quotes out of whole cloth, or somehow forced Ms. Palin, et al. to use violent rhetoric or repeatedly invoke firearms.

The majority of conservatives on this thread seem to be choosing to attack the messenger and ignore the message, because apparently the truth is far too painful to confront. In my opinion, failure to acknowledge the right wing's excessive violent rhetoric and invocation of gun imagery is dishonest, and failure to condemn it is morally equivalent to condoning it. (Again, if anyone disagrees with me, instead of lashing out, just click that little eyeshade icon on the bottom right of this post and we'll all be happier.)

It's very sad that those who most often align themselves with the party of personal responsibility always feel compelled to lash out in anger at those who are trying to be polite, like myself.

I think that these angry personal attacks and sweeping generalizations on all levels of politics, from elected representatives, to candidates, to commentators, and all the way down to anonymous discussion forum members like ourselves, is actually part of the problem. It's the constant lashing out in anger, the bitterness, the holding of grudges at real and imagined slights, the endless demonizing of your political opponents and belittling and insulting those that dare to have a different viewpoint, rather than attempting to open the doors of communication and have an honest, constructive discussion as equals.

They say that the first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem, but for most conservatives on this forum it is more important to make personal attacks and to snipe at one another than to confront what I believe is a clear and obvious truth. (To me, the funniest thing of all is that, while I would not choose to own a gun myself, I actually support gun rights! I've been on this forum practically from the beginning, and I doubt I have ever once advocated gun control laws or criticized the Second Amendment.)

I truly feel sorry for the bitter conservatives here, and fervently hope that someday they will choose reason and honesty over blind hatred and denial.

[gipper]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

Everything you've said is clinging to the severity of what some progressives may want, eventhough in actual reality-based truth it's far from any likelyhood in the near future. You're no better than the people you condemn.




Both sides are propaganding and politicizing this in their own ways. The failure to recognize that is your own, most likely due to an ignorance you continually like to display in this place.

Poor little doggy...did you left wing masters kick you today???

You have no understanding of what is going on and yet, in your mental delusion, you think you do and I do not.

You make assertions, but you never back them up with any facts. It is apparent the Left has politicized this event (except maybe to you). Can you prove the Right has too?

[DosEquis]

thatguyoverthere ... over here.. where ever he might be... is full of win in this thread.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

thatguyoverthere ... over here.. where ever he might be... is full of win in this thread.

not really because of any thing I respond with will be met with "two wrongs don't make a right", "both sides do it but one is worse"

there are plenty of examples of democrats using war language...hell even shooting the cap and trade bill but "two wrongs don't make a right", "both sides do it but one is worse"

And the main point is that none of this had ANYTHING to do with this shooting. Calling the President an illegitimate war criminal is 'A OKAY' but calling him an illegitimate muslim is out of bounds statement that is a call to violence. They both are wrong.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

not really because of any thing I respond with will be met with "two wrongs don't make a right", "both sides do it but one is worse"

there are plenty of examples of democrats using war language...hell even shooting the cap and trade bill but "two wrongs don't make a right", "both sides do it but one is worse"

And the main point is that none of this had ANYTHING to do with this shooting. Calling the President an illegitimate war criminal is 'A OKAY' but calling him an illegitimate muslim is out of bounds statement that is a call to violence. They both are wrong.

It's amazing that for some people their idea of being bipartisan is basically saying "Republicans are worse than Democrats." After eight years of the Bush administration and reading their posts it's simply hysterical to see people now claiming the language needs to be toned down. Now that their man is chief all of a sudden this is a major issue in politics that needs to be dealt with, oh and it's the Republicans at fault of course. Everyone can agree that it wouldn't be a bad thing if public discourse were toned down. But let's not cover our eyes and believe it has anything to do with this American tragedy or that a particular party is more guilty than another.

I remember members of this forum defending Kos for saying "Screw them" in regards to Americans being maimed in Iraq... We've had people literally calling for the heads of Republicans and describing their desire to see Republicans tortured. This whole thing is really just a huge pile of fake outrage.

[kinggovernor]

Oh look for fake outrage from the Left, now "job killing bill" shouldn't be used

Rep. Chellie Pingree: For Gabby's Sake, Republicans Should Change the Name of Their Health Care Repeal Bill