Originally Posted by Donkey®
Who is relevant? I mean, the sheriff of Pima County is mentioned...why is he relevant? Olbermann was mentioned...why is he relevant? Must be nice to be able to determine who is relevant and who isn't.
I'm not reading JaJae's comments, but I will assume that he was referring to the quotes in my post.
*sigh* JaJae and Kinggovernor's baseless and angry attacks on me is what I should expect, that will teach me to try and be nice. (It's very likely that one of them didn't even bother to read my whole post, but that wouldn't stop him from responding to it. It's happened before. Just sad.) At least you are here to provide some balance, and for that, I'm grateful.
If I were
to speak to JaJae, and expected that he would ever consider my words instead of ignoring them in favor of blindly lashing out at me in anger, I would say this - The quotes in my original post and the ones above are perfectly relevant to this thread because that's what this thread is about: the rhetoric that is out of control.
Believe me, I'd absolutely love
to respond to them in equal measure, and match their fury with my own, even exceed it. When I take the time to carefully construct a response and try to be as polite as possible but am only met with blind fury and personal insults, it's deeply frustrating. But, when I think about the animus in his, Kinggovernors', CharlieK's, and gippers responses, I do understand why they are so angry.
The truth hurts.
It's very sad that they feel like they have to respond in such a way, and continually pass up opportunities to learn from one another instead of the same old same old fighting that bores everyone who is familiar with this forum to tears and drives so many other quality members away from it entirely. There are conservatives here that I truly respect and have cordial relationships with, even though we might at times strenuously disagree. I won't name all of them, for fear of embarrassing them, but I will give an example. Even though our first interaction was a fairly heated argument, I don't think Swift would be too mad if I said that I now actually consider him a friend. (If you do get mad at me saying that, Swift, just let me know and I'll edit it out!) I believe that it is
possible to find common ground with your political opponents and to learn from one another, to disagree without being disagreeable. One of my roommates for many years was a dyed in the wool Libertarian, and we are still good pals.
If someone doesn't like me, that's fine. If they don't want to give my arguments consideration, that is their right and I support that right. Just ignore me. Feeling that they have to respond with bitterness and personal insults to forum members whom they have absolutely no intention of engaging in a good faith debate with, apparently just to show off for the other forum readers, is an empty and useless gesture, in my humble opinion. I am only a guy over there, my opinion is not worth boiling their blood over, I'm sure they would agree!
I would tell JaJae, Kinggovernor, and the rest that words do indeed have consequences, and people on one side of the political spectrum should be prepared to take responsibility for their excessively violent rhetoric and invocations of gun imagery if it happens that gun violence is unleashed upon a politician of the opposing side. Even if they aren't prepared to take responsibility for possibly poisoning the political atmosphere, those people that align themselves with their side should at least be honest enough to simply acknowledge that many prominent figures on the right are indeed
engaging in excessively violent rhetoric and invoking gun imagery. But, apparently this is too much to ask of most of the conservatives on this forum. Unfortunately, it's not at all surprising. Anger, meanness, and denial of the obvious truth seem to be their modus operandi
, doesn't it?
I've said it before, and it looks like I have to say it again. This violent rhetoric and gun imagery may not have contributed anything at all to this tragedy, but many prominent conservatives DID engage in violent rhetoric and invoke the images of firearms, and it might be possible
that that type of rhetoric and imagery could contribute to tragedies like this one. It's just the truth, and to deny it is silly. In my personal opinion, the best way to avoid any future tragedies is to tone down the rhetoric and refrain from the constant fear mongering, sweeping demonization of the opposition, and continual invocation of gun imagery. To me, it seems like the most responsible way to approach the situation, but the first step is to simply acknowledge that it is happening.
I didn't put all those quotes by Ms. Palin, Ms. Angle, Ms. Bachmann, et al. to score political points out of a tragedy, that would be obscene. I did it to try to get those who align themselves with the conservative movement to simply acknowledge that many prominent figures on the right are excessively engaging in this type of violent rhetoric and invocation of gun imagery, and to hopefully condemn it. Apparently they choose to not believe it or acknowledge it, even when shown example after example. Instead, they choose to treat me as if I just made up those quotes out of whole cloth, or somehow forced
Ms. Palin, et al. to use violent rhetoric or repeatedly invoke firearms.
The majority of conservatives on this thread seem to be choosing to attack the messenger and ignore the message, because apparently the truth is far too painful to confront. In my opinion, failure to acknowledge the right wing's excessive violent rhetoric and invocation of gun imagery is dishonest, and failure to condemn it is morally equivalent to condoning it. (Again, if anyone disagrees with me, instead of lashing out, just click that little eyeshade icon on the bottom right of this post and we'll all be happier.)
It's very sad that those who most often align themselves with the party of personal responsibility always feel compelled to lash out in anger at those who are trying to be polite, like myself.
I think that these angry personal attacks and sweeping generalizations on all
levels of politics, from elected representatives, to candidates, to commentators, and all the way down to anonymous discussion forum members like ourselves, is actually part of the problem
. It's the constant lashing out in anger, the bitterness, the holding of grudges at real and imagined slights, the endless demonizing of your political opponents and belittling and insulting those that dare to have a different viewpoint, rather than attempting to open the doors of communication and have an honest, constructive discussion as equals.
They say that the first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem, but for most conservatives on this forum it is more important to make personal attacks and to snipe at one another than to confront what I believe is a clear and obvious truth. (To me, the funniest thing of all is that, while I would not choose to own a gun myself, I actually support gun rights! I've been on this forum practically from the beginning, and I doubt I have ever once advocated gun control laws or criticized the Second Amendment.)
I truly feel sorry for the bitter conservatives here, and fervently hope that someday they will choose reason and honesty over blind hatred and denial.