The True Iraq

Diamond Cross · 11-07-2006, 05:49 AM

Here is a site that reports on the good things that are happening in Iraq that the mainstream media refuses to report on:

True IRAQ - Illustrating the Reality About What is Happening in Iraq.

<H1>The overall picture in Iraq is much more positive than what is primarily portrayed.

This site was created as a balance to the negative (and upon investigation, primarily inaccurate) coverage of Iraq. This site is not intended to be a diatribe, but rather a repository for a side to Iraq that is all too often underrepresented or isolated. This site will only focus on the positive happenings in Iraq, along with dispelling common misconceptions/mistruths.

As this site is new, please be patient as new content is continually added. There is much more positive news about Iraq than we had initially envisioned, and it will take time to evaluate. This site is only intended to be a source of information, we will not have advertising, nor will we accept any funding or donations. Thank you for having an open mind to learn about the true Iraq.

</H1>

thatguyoverthere · 11-07-2006, 09:23 AM

Your point in posting this link? It does a very poor job of making a case that there's any good news in Iraq going on right now. In fact, it seems to prove otherwise. If this is the "good news" in Iraq, good news must be very hard to come by.

Here are the two most recently dated links on that site:

I found one article written in July 2006, telling about Christmas stockings for the troops.

Groups Sending Troops Holiday Cheer
By By Samantha L. Quigley / American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, July 21, 2006 - With a name that sounds like a Madagascar Penguins' plan, Operation Christmas Stocking has commenced.

Thanks to the efforts of Stars for Stripes and Operation Give, troops in Iraq will have Christmas stockings this holiday season.

To accomplish this in a timely manner and accommodate as many servicemembers as possible, donations need to be at Operation Give's Salt Lake City warehouse by Oct. 15. The goal is to ship at least at least 10,000 stockings, Paul Holton, an Army National Guardsman and founder of Operation Give, said.
...

Here's the most recent article that I could find. An opinion piece:

November 1, 2006
Respect and Honor for America's Military

Steve McCullough
Today, as America becomes more secular and more "progressive", our military becomes less honored and respected. There was a time when military service was admired by Americans and those who served were thanked for their commitment to our country's security. During World War II, many Hollywood actors like Col. James Stewart volunteered for active duty in dangerous combat missions. Jimmy Stewart was at the acme of his acting career when his country called, and he answered by enlisting in the US Air Force. Another enlistee was baseball Hall of Famer Ted Williams. Ted not only volunteered for active duty as a Marine Corps pilot during World War II but reenlisted during the Korean War despite the fact that he had been shot down during a WW II mission. In all, Williams sacrificed 5 prime years of his legendary baseball career to serve as a military pilot. Thousands of men and women from acting, sports and various other luminous careers joined the ranks of "regular" Americans who proudly volunteered to serve in the military during World War II. Unlike today's celebrities, like Sean Penn or Michael Moore, who spend their energy critiquing the military or producing anti-military movies, Hollywood actually produced hundreds of pro-military films. Today's "stars" say they support the military but not their mission. That's like saying one supports the surgeon but not the life-saving operations he performs.
...

How that is "good news" in Iraq escapes me.

purplefingerforfreedom.org - link dead
inspiredbyiraq.com - link dead

Every other link on that page is dated January 2006 or earlier. Most every link is not a news article, but an opinion piece. As far as I'm concerned, I don't give a shit what Charles Krauthammer thinks, and I REALLY don't care about his opinion of how the war is going in 2005.

How is a website filled with old links to right wing editorials proof that there is good news in Iraq?

thatguyoverthere · 11-07-2006, 09:35 AM

How are things going with training the Iraqi logistics so that they can sustain the Iraqi army (you know, so they can stand up and we can stand down?)

MercuryNews.com | 10/30/2006 | Audit: U.S. military has lost track of weapons in Iraq

...
The inspector general's office, led by Stuart Bowen, also a Republican, responded to Warner's query about the Iraqi army's logistical capabilities with a report released at the same time, concluding that Iraqi security forces still depend heavily on the Americans for the operations that sustain a modern army: deliveries of food, fuel and ammunition, troop transport, health care and maintenance.

Bowen found the U.S. military was not able to say how many Iraqi logistics personnel it has trained -- in this case because, the military told the inspector general, a computer network crash erased records. These problems have occurred even though the United States has spent $133 million on the weapons program and $666 million on building up Iraqi logistics capabilities.
...

How about the hospitals in Iraq?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/news...aa8d7d0f38.htm

IRAQ: Country's healthcare system rapidly deteriorating

BAGHDAD, 7 November (IRIN) - Iraq's healthcare system is continuing to deteriorate as not enough qualified staff or equipment is available, according to the Iraqi Medical Association (IMA)."Doctors are facing serious challenges, further exacerbated by poor resources offered by the government. The medical system is getting worse every day and [even] with all the efforts made by the Ministry of Health, the problems are serious. Iraqis are dying due to a lack of proper medical assistance," said Farouk Najji, a clinician and senior member of IMA.
...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq violence: Facts and figures

Roadside, car bomb attacks in Iraq at 'all-time high' | csmonitor.com

Insurgent attacks in Iraq at highest level in 2 years - The Boston Globe

Scrum · 11-07-2006, 09:38 AM

I don't see any real good news on that site.

I see a lot of opinion pieces, one written by lieberman.

It certainly doesn't support your case that good news is ignored though, it supports that fact that not much good is going on at all.

Donkey® · 11-07-2006, 10:18 AM

For someone that complains about "partisan" politics CONSTANTLY in here...you sure post some partisan garbage sometimes.

There is no good in Iraq that can even come close to making up for the bad that goes on there. Period.

Diamond Cross · 11-07-2006, 12:29 PM

I fully expected these kinds of remarks. If people would open their minds they'd see how much good is really happening. Far more than is reported, far more than the deaths caused by a minority group. Now watch people complain about me calling terrorists and the Saddam loyalists, but it's true when only 1 out of 1270 Iraqis are the ones who're causing the conflict and are not supported by the general public.

No good comes out of Iraq.

Yeah, right.

Or maybe the problem is that it is still to connected to President Bush, so it's easy to see how some people could say that there's no good coming out of Iraq. If it weren't for support of him our trtoops wouldn't be there and there'd still be things like legalised rape gangs and prisoners of pilitical ideals.

Scrum · 11-07-2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I fully expected these kinds of remarks. If people would open their minds they'd see how much good is really happening. Far more than is reported, far more than the deaths caused by a minority group. Now watch people complain about me calling terrorists and the Saddam loyalists, but it's true when only 1 out of 1270 Iraqis are the ones who're causing the conflict and are not supported by the general public.

No good comes out of Iraq.

Yeah, right.

Or maybe the problem is that it is still to connected to President Bush, so it's easy to see how some people could say that there's no good coming out of Iraq. If it weren't for support of him our trtoops wouldn't be there and there'd still be things like legalised rape gangs and prisoners of pilitical ideals.

Why don't you go ahead and post some stories from that site to show us how good things are?

As was said above, there isn't much on that site to support your conclusion.

Diamond Cross · 11-07-2006, 12:41 PM

Because thoise personal stories wouldn't make a difference, people are still stuck on failure when it isn't a failure. Iraq is a success, but it is still difficult to rebuild when terrorists are driven to tear it down. And yes it does. Esepcially in the links section.

WickedLou9 · 11-07-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Because thoise personal stories wouldn't make a difference, people are still stuck on failure when it isn't a failure. Iraq is a success, but it is still difficult to rebuild when terrorists are driven to tear it down. And yes it does. Esepcially in the links section.

Iraq is a success????? In what crazy sort of world is Iraq a success?
We didn't go over there and take over thier country because Iraq didn't have enough schools. We had a goal of making the middle east more stable, to lessen the threat of terrorism. Since those goals were not met, in what way is Iraq a success? In the world I live in, if you fail to meet the goals you set out for, that's called a failure.

Scrum · 11-07-2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Because thoise personal stories wouldn't make a difference, people are still stuck on failure when it isn't a failure. Iraq is a success, but it is still difficult to rebuild when terrorists are driven to tear it down. And yes it does. Esepcially in the links section.

Your argument is long on emotion and short on evidence.

And i don't see how you could possibly call Iraq a success.

Diamond Cross · 11-07-2006, 01:08 PM

It's a success because these Iraqis have things they've never had before. Saddam husein has violated many human rights, such as putting people in jail for different political ideas and his continued genocide against the Kurds.. And there's plenty of facts at that website. Many of them are very greatful for America being there.

A guerilla war is the most difficult war to fight. It's easy to call defeat when it's in the early stages and all people see are the deaths of the soldiers and not any other reporting of the good things that are happening.

If people would open their minds they'd see it. The situation is like the bully on the playground albeit on a much larger scale. Bullies are generally cowards thaqt should be stood up to.

But here's another one that does both pros and cons:

U.S.-Iraq ProCon.org

Conflict Highlights - U.S.-Iraq ProCon.org

SICKGUY · 11-08-2006, 02:06 AM

its funny that iraqi's having cell phones is a sign of iraq on the rise. how many hours during the day do they actually work?

i think its great to be optimistic, but even the best news is far outweighed by the bad.

IminWonderland · 11-08-2006, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

It's a success because these Iraqis have things they've never had before.

We have alot of things here that we've never had before, and now we are worse off.

I don't see the trade off we made so far being beneficial for either side, close enough to being worth it.

We are dying over there, they are dying faster.

IminWonderland · 11-08-2006, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by SICKGUY

its funny that iraqi's having cell phones is a sign of iraq on the rise. how many hours during the day do they actually work?

i think its great to be optimistic, but even the best news is far outweighed by the bad.

I think that the sobbing women in Durka's on TV, the one's that lost a child because of a suicide bomber (which is one of the things that Iraqi's DID NOT have before we got there...another perk.), or lost a husband because of a bombing trying to get someone from Al Queda in a neighboring building, or whose brother was tortured in one of our fantastic prisons over there...I think we should hand her a cell phone, so that way she'll understand how great her life is now.

Kytro · 11-08-2006, 02:19 AM

Also some things they used to have, they don't.

I'll bet women will be more oppressed now than under Saddam

Nonphixion · 11-08-2006, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kytro

Also some things they used to have, they don't.

I'll bet women will be more oppressed now than under Saddam

Indeed women now have a frighteningly less amount of freedum under US occupation than they did under Saddam. There was actually more liberty for all females while Saddam was in power -- we drive our troops in and we've taken that away from females and have restore them to the bottom class in society as they were many a decade ago.

Saddam was actually making more progress than we were. He managed to keep terrorists out of Iraq for as long as he was in power, and we are actually pulling them into Iraq in droves ... as well as; The Bush Doctrine is creating new terrorists where they never would have never existed before.

avsp · 11-08-2006, 10:28 AM

Well, they've legally got mobile phones & sat tv, but they still cant talk openly to the international media, ..., or even in some cases to each other in public
At least before they had some idea of who the secret police were but now they dont
Also they have daily car bombing etc in Baghdad, which is another new development

So, at least in Baghdad, its hardly any shops, no real free speech, no sustained improvment in fuel, water or electricity supplies, lots of roadblocks, armed militas 'protecting' the hospitals, brutish treats to 'conform' to some arbitaryily set standard & widespread distrust of the police

So, despite claims about the 'good being done Iraq', (which I dont really doubt), it clearly is the case that things are worse now than before & as instigators of the change the coalition must take some responsibility for this, ..., especially as it was always a possibilty yet the powers that be refused point blank to plan for it & further have failed to take any effective remedial action to fix it.

And all this despite the proof of massive military tech supiourty & boasts of the bounty that freedom, democracy & 'the american way' were going to bring.

The failure to bring even the semblance of security to Baghdad undermines everything else that has been accomplished & just serves to damage coalition credibility

Deflectionist attempts to somehow deny or lessen this reality just serve to further weaken attempts to fix the situation

thatguyoverthere · 11-08-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

And yes it does. Esepcially in the links section.

Bullshit.

Those links are mostly useless. Out of 73 links on that TRUEIraq page you linked to, a whopping SEVEN are dated since January 2006. Eight of the links are dead.

Those 7 timely links are not all "good news in Iraq." Most are military newsletters. The only one that I see as "good news" is the Christmas stockings for the troops, as quoted above.

I clicked on all 73 links on that page. The vast majority of links are opinion pieces from 2004 and 2005.

I challenge you to find three links on that TRUEIraq page that are actual news stories published in the last nine months citing good news in Iraq. Editorials, columns, or opinion pieces do not count. I doubt you can do it.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

...it's true when only 1 out of 1270 Iraqis are the ones who're causing the conflict and are not supported by the general public.

Is this the place you pulled that stat from?:

ESR | July 26, 2004 | The war after the war

The man who quotes that stat was a conservative magazine editor who is now a Bush advisor. Not exactly objective. Also, that stat is from July 2004. It might have been true then, but it is intellectually dishonest of you to quote that today as fact.

How does the Iraqi general public feel about the conflict now?

Stars & Stripes

Originally Posted by Stars And Stripes

...
Almost 80 percent of all attacks in Iraq target coalition forces, the survey said, although three-fourths of the casualties are Iraqis.

Significant percentages of Iraqis responding to a U.S. government poll lauded individuals attacking “multinational forces” as “patriots” and “freedom fighters.”

The survey, which the report says was conducted by the State Department’s Office of Research from Oct. 24-27, 2005, said that the “overwhelming majority of respondents in every region polled chose the terms ‘terrorist,’ or ‘criminal’” to describe the perpetrators of violence against Iraqi civilians.

But when asked to describe the individuals attacking coalition forces, 88 percent of Iraqis in the mostly Sunni areas of Tikrit and Baqouba called them either “freedom fighters” or “patriots.”

Even in the more mixed Sunni-Shiite areas of Baghdad and Kirkuk, about 53 percent of Iraqis polled chose either the patriot or freedom fighter characterization.
...

So even though Iraqi civilians are 75% of the casualties of attacks against coalition forces, 53 to 88% of Iraqis approve of those very same attacks.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

If it weren't for support of (Bush) our trtoops wouldn't be there and there'd still be things like legalised rape gangs and prisoners of pilitical ideals.

How about the Iraqi police working with death squads? I guess that's a step UP for Iraq in your book, huh?

JURIST - Paper Chase: Over 50 Iraqi police charged with corruption and abuse

Originally Posted by Jurist

Iraq's Interior Ministry announced Tuesday that 57 members of its Shiite-led police force have been charged with torturing hundreds of detainees at a prison in eastern Baghdad. This is the first time the Iraqi government has filed charges against members of the police amidst ongoing accusations [JURIST report] of corruption and human rights violations. Besides the police torture chamber discovered in Baghdad last year and the complicity of police in a mass kidnapping of Sunni workers, investigators also discovered the bodies of apparent death squad victims that were killed in reaction to the bombing of a Shiite shrine in February. Police are suspected of aiding and abetting the murders by allowing death squad members to pass through checkpoints and violate curfews.

I'm not even going to bother with the "prisoners of political ideals." If you don't know that we've released most of the prisoners we've taken without pressing charges, or aren't aware that we've suspended the writ of Habeus Corpus, I can't help you there, buddy. You need to read the fucking news sometime. You come across as extremely uninformed on those two points.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I fully expected these kinds of remarks. If people would open their minds they'd see how much good is really happening.

If you expected these kinds of remarks, you should have been prepared to counter them with facts. You can talk 'til you're blue in the fingers, but the facts disprove your assertions.

Instead of urging us to open our minds and linking to old opinion pieces to back yourself up, try and quote us some news links, we're waiting. How are things going in Iraqi hospitals? How's things going in building the Iraqi army to be self sufficient? How's the clean water in Iraq? How many hours of electricity are they getting? How's the Iraqi national basketball team? How's Fallujah?

Good things are happening in Iraq?

Yeah, right.