Are you a liberal?

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

I'm not talking about the group of people or the type of people. I'm talking the key things that liberals come together to agree on. Maybe not in implementation but as a point of what government should be.

Conservatives:
Small government
low federal taxes
self reliance.

Those are three points that all conservatives hold true. Though we may disagree on how best to implement them.

The current conservative philosophy may preach small government but socially, they are as BIG GOVERNMENT as they come.

Conservatives want to regulate nearly every major social issue in America.

That's the punchline no conservative seems to get. I wonder why?

[Swift]

Originally Posted by illavbill

He's too fucking partisan to realize that Bushy-poo didn't fucking include these wars in the budget and won't acknowledge the fact that all the de-regulation and other bullshit pro-business stuff Bush & Co took part in have long reaching consequences they don't just go away Jan 20 when Bush is gone.

LOL, so let's spend a trillion dolloars right off the bat! Yeah that'll work! Oh, wait...it went to states to keep the state government employees in jobs, not make new ones. My Bad.

This is the thing. I'm not saying any one president or politician is the perfect conservative. I'm really just trying to talk philosophy of your beliefs on how government should be run(I've said as much). But you keep making into a "But the republicans did this ______!"

Is it possible to have a philosophical discussion without any of us pointing fingers at a particular politician and just debate?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift

LOL, so let's spend a trillion dolloars right off the bat! Yeah that'll work! Oh, wait...it went to states to keep the state government employees in jobs, not make new ones. My Bad.

This is the thing. I'm not saying any one president or politician is the perfect conservative. I'm really just trying to talk philosophy of your beliefs on how government should be run(I've said as much). But you keep making into a "But the republicans did this ______!"

Is it possible to have a philosophical discussion without any of us pointing fingers at a particular politician and just debate?

You can't have an honest discussion with someone who listed these three things for the definition of "conservative"


Small government
low federal taxes
self reliance.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You can't have an honest discussion with someone who listed these three things for the definition of "conservative"


Small government
low federal taxes
self reliance.

Really? So let's go my friend. What do you have? How have I stated anything that contradicts those three statements. I'm looking forward to you finding something.

The difference between a liberal and a conservative? A conservative can have a discussion on philosophy, liberals go straight to the emotions and to how republicans haven't really been conservative.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

The current conservative philosophy may preach small government but socially, they are as BIG GOVERNMENT as they come.

Conservatives want to regulate nearly every major social issue in America.

That's the punchline no conservative seems to get. I wonder why?

Actually, I want to regulate social issues on the state level. Marriage, adoption, abortion, etc. That is not the role of the federal government.

Past republicans have been way to spendy. I've said that multiple times. But see, here we are again, talking occurrences and not principle.

So at this point, I'm going to conclude that the type of conversation I'm looking for isn't going to happen. Oh well.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift

Really? So let's go my friend. What do you have? How have I stated anything that contradicts those three statements. I'm looking forward to you finding something.

The difference between a liberal and a conservative? A conservative can have a discussion on philosophy, liberals go straight to the emotions and to how republicans haven't really been conservative.

What do conservatives feel about abortion?



Game. Set. Match.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What do conservatives feel about abortion?



Game. Set. Match.

As a conservative, I feel that it's not the role of the federal government to intervene in that decision. But as it's also a very moral decision, the federal government shouldn't fund it either. Also, if a woman can get an abortion then a man should be able to waive his right to being a father.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

Actually, I want to regulate social issues on the state level. Marriage, adoption, abortion, etc. That is not the role of the federal government.

Past republicans have been way to spendy. I've said that multiple times. But see, here we are again, talking occurrences and not principle.

So at this point, I'm going to conclude that the type of conversation I'm looking for isn't going to happen. Oh well.

I'm open for conversation in all forums sir. I find it alittle disturbing you don't admit in your post that most conservative Republicans discuss gay marriage and abortion at the federal level, despite what they want done on the State level. That sends the message to conservatives national wide that the Fed should act. And from the looks of it, the People are in favor of it because they feel their view (religious or ideology) is so correct, they're willing to turn a blind eye to their core principles at all costs for a win.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

I'm open for conversation in all forums sir. I find it alittle disturbing you don't admit in your post that most conservative Republicans discuss gay marriage and abortion at the federal level, despite what they want done on the State level. That sends the message to conservatives national wide that the Fed should act. And from the looks of it, the People are in favor of it because they feel their view (religious or ideology) is so correct, they're willing to turn a blind eye to their core principles at all costs for a win.

They should get those issues off the federal roster, period. So should the dems. It's none of the feds business.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift

As a conservative, I feel that it's not the role of the federal government to intervene in that decision. But as it's also a very moral decision, the federal government shouldn't fund it either. Also, if a woman can get an abortion then a man should be able to waive his right to being a father.

Ha ha ha....so add some things to your list of 3 and we can talk.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Ha ha ha....so add some things to your list of 3 and we can talk.

No, I think you can go with some liberal principles of government now.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

They should get those issues off the federal roster, period. So should the dems. It's none of the feds business.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, your elected conservatives don't. Perhaps it's time you found new friends to vote for?

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

I agree with you. Unfortunately, your elected conservatives don't. Perhaps it's time you found new friends to vote for?

Rome wasn't built in a day and a party can't be changed overnight. I'll keep voting for the most conservative candidate that can win.

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

Rome wasn't built in a day and a party can't be changed overnight. I'll keep voting for the most conservative candidate that can win.

Rome also fell because of imcompetence and because its elected officials became weak and took their eye off sticking with issues that would actually create stability within the Empire.

You should ask yourself if voting conservative is for achieving personal satisfication or for realistically helping solve problems.

[The Esteemed Gentleman]

Originally Posted by illavbill

He's too fucking partisan to realize that Bushy-poo didn't fucking include these wars in the budget and won't acknowledge the fact that all the de-regulation and other bullshit pro-business stuff Bush & Co took part in have long reaching consequences they don't just go away Jan 20 when Bush is gone.

You do realize the biggest piece of deregulation in the last 10 years (well, longer now - damn I am getting old) or so was when Clinton signed the Gramm Act?

Or is it just your SOP to blame Republicans for everything? Hmm, I think it is. So who is "too fucking partisan"? Methinks tis you.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

Rome also fell because of imcompetence and because its elected officials became weak and took their eye off sticking with issues that would actually create stability within the Empire.

You should ask yourself if voting conservative is for achieving personal satisfication or for realistically helping solve problems.

That's easy to say for a moderate. Can you please explain to me, in all seriousness, what you consider a moderate to be?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift

No, I think you can go with some liberal principles of government now.

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A history lesson? I'm not interested in how it started. I'm interested in what you all want to do now and the philosophy of how the government should run from your perspective. Why is that so hard for you to articulate?

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

That's easy to say for a moderate. Can you please explain to me, in all seriousness, what you consider a moderate to be?

Why is that easy for me? And what does that have to do with me proclaiming to be a moderate out of all the dopey choices in the text box?

I've always considered myself an original Republican, or Jefferson Republican. But to simplify it more, I go with my moral compass and my gut. I lean left on social issues because in a free society stated under the Constitution, we should be allowed several rights we don't have because of Federal or State restrictions. I lean right of fiscal issues because I believe in capitalism and the idea of a society of self made small businesses prospering in a country with a limited government to harass them.

However, when I see conservatives flock to big corporations for instance, it sickens me. Big businesses have destroyed self made small businesses and Big Business is about 2011 Republican as you can get. Wal-Mart has become the norm. People who would have their own businesses that bitch about the lack of opportunity readily shop at these big chains because they're told its helping the economy. No, in actuality, its killing the principles we founded this great nation on.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

However, when I see conservatives flock to big corporations for instance, it sickens me. Big businesses have destroyed self made small businesses and Big Business is about 2011 Republican as you can get. Wal-Mart has become the norm. People who would have their own businesses that bitch about the lack of opportunity readily shop at these big chains because they're told its helping the economy. No, in actuality, its killing the principles we founded this great nation on.

Wait, what do you mean republicans flock to big business? Who got the lion's share of donations in the 2008 race? It wasn't John McCain. I've never understood how republicans have been labeled the big business party when the big businesses donate huge sums to dems.

As far as wal mart being the norm. Would you have said the same when cars were becoming mainstream and pushing out the horse and buggy? If you believe in capitalism then you shouldn't have a problem with wal-mart from a business side. Ethically is a different story.