BE prepared... - Page 4

Ardentfrost · 11-08-2006, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I love your line of thinking in this.

Thanks

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Oh, dude, I'm against the gov't programs too... we're on the same page there But I don't see that as a reason to keep immigrants illegal.

I'm trying to avoid setting a precedent that will cause problems in the future.

We all pay for the programs so that we can use them. More legal immigrants means more people paying AND more people using... more illegal immigrants just means more people using.

I just don't believe it's that simple

I'm not afraid of 13 million or whatever else other countries send in, but it IS something we should keep an eye on. If the rate gets too high which causes the labor force to become saturated, then we gotta slow it down. That was our mistake in the late 1800's. We KNEW how many immigrants were coming in, and we just let it happen. Next thing you know wage jobs are hard as shit to get and pay nothing.

Why wait til it gets too high to control it? Why not deal with it before it becomes a problem? This is like the social security issue; everyone wants to wait until there is no money before they tackle the issue, when we could just easily approach the problem now before it actual is a problem.

Do you wait until you have cancer or a disease to be healthy, or you do you try and be healthy to avoid getting sick?

Publius · 11-08-2006, 05:46 PM

But it actually IS a problem now man, we have tons of illegal, undocumented immigrants!

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

The United States is nowhere near "full" ... There are VAST sections of the nation with very low population densities. If we had a couple of billion people packed into the country you might have an argument, but we don't.

I want to keep it like that.

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

But it actually IS a problem now man, we have tons of illegal, undocumented immigrants!

Heh; this is nowhere near the problem you'll be inviting to your doorstep if you give them all amnesty. A relatively small problem is better than the bigger one.

Publius · 11-08-2006, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I want to keep it like that.

I'm more interested in preserving our economy, and a more open immigration policy will do that a hell of a lot better than having vast stretches of the nation with .5 people per square mile.

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

I'm more interested in preserving our economy, and a more open immigration policy will do that a hell of a lot better than having vast stretches of the nation with .5 people per square mile.

I'm interesting in preserving our economy and our country

Publius · 11-08-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Heh; this is nowhere near the problem you'll be inviting to your doorstep if you give them all amnesty. A relatively small problem is better than the bigger one.

I didn't say anything about amnesty. I don't care for retroactive laws, but moving forward with the same failed policy we have now is idiotic.

Ardentfrost · 11-08-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why wait til it gets too high to control it? Why not deal with it before it becomes a problem? This is like the social security issue; everyone wants to wait until there is no money before they tackle the issue, when we could just easily approach the problem now before it actual is a problem.

Do you wait until you have cancer or a disease to be healthy, or you do you try and be healthy to avoid getting sick?

I don't think it WILL be a problem. I'm saying IF it becomes a problem. Again, using the immigration rush from 100 years ago as an example, we had open doors for 150 years before it was a problem (longer than that really). The only reason it WAS a problem is shit like the potato famine of Ireland and shit that caused a shit ton of people to have to leave.

Mexico doesn't have any problems besides just being Mexico. I have no reason to think that immigration from that particular country (or any other country) will be a problem at this time. Show me some potato famines or something like that and I might be swayed, but I STILL think our basis should be open door, and adjust slightly when problems arise (the slight adjustment would be temporary just to make sure our economy doesn't get shocked).

Publius · 11-08-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm interesting in preserving our economy and our country

And you're doing neither by trying to choke off immigration. Look at Europe: very draconian immigration laws, low birth rates amongst natural citizens... And Europe is no longer a hot-spot of world affairs (as much as they like to think they are). Is that the path you want us to go down?

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

I didn't say anything about amnesty.

But that's the issue here

I don't care for retroactive laws, but moving forward with the same failed policy we have now is idiotic.

I've never disputed that

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

And you're doing neither.

I don't support the current immigration policy though, but I don't want amnesty either.

I don't want out country to have the population problems China has.

DosEquis · 11-08-2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Ah, no. Republicans are PRO military. Remember? They can be pissed because of the circumstance, but they don't pray for a military disasters like you guys do!

How is it PRO military to send soldiers to combat without equipment they need like armor? How PRO military is it to not send enough soldiers to get the job done? How PRO military is it to leave them in the middle of a conflict with no real plan for victory?

I am afraid you are one of those that if you send 445 billion to the defense budget, research for a nuclear bunker buster we will never use, type guy then you consider that PRO military.

Ardentfrost · 11-08-2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I want to keep it like that.

I want to maximize our economy and economic growth. America is too good at business and making money for our own population growth to supply our need. Immigration is required for efficiency.

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I don't think it WILL be a problem.

Granting amnesty to everyone that sneaks in here WILL be a problem.

Publius · 11-08-2006, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Granting amnesty to everyone that sneaks in here WILL be a problem.

please show me where Ardent or I have said anything about amnesty?

Ardentfrost · 11-08-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Granting amnesty to everyone that sneaks in here WILL be a problem.

I'm not GRANTING anything. I'm saying allow it as long as there doesn't seem to be a problem occuring elsewhere causing too much of an immigration. Perhaps I'm for granting legal immigrant status to the ones that are already here with jobs, but future ones would still have to be registered immigrants in my book. I'm just saying that we needn't slow it until slowing is required (which it isn't).

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

please show me where Ardent or I have said anything about amnesty?

What are we arguing about if it's not amnesty? I brought up the issue of amnesty, and you both are arguing with me. If not about amnesty for all the illegals, then what?

ballz2wallz · 11-08-2006, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I'm just saying that we needn't slow it until slowing is required (which it isn't).

I think by then it's too late

Ardentfrost · 11-08-2006, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I think by then it's too late

There were YEARS of increased immigration in the late 1800's that caused the wage drops... I mean, it later caused the roaring 20's, but at that time, it sucked ass. We could have slowed it anytime in those 10-15 years and been better equipped to deal with the problems. Instead we just kept letting boat after boat full of immigrants register and enter the labor force.

We knew EXACTLY what was going on, right from the begining. We were just too optimistic about it.