Virginia blinks

notquiteright · 02-23-2012, 08:37 PM

Virginia pushed off the 'personhood' bill that would have declared a fetus a person, all the way to conception. This comes just days after the bill's sponsor, Robert Marshall (R), amended the bill to include a transvaginal ultrasound before any abortion, even though the woman was not required to view it. (In other words a government mandated intrusion neither the doctor or patient wanted and no one uses but the patient pays for anyway)

People who believe in it is a woman's body and her choice see this as a victory. Transvaginal ultrasounds are done by pushing a probe into a woman's vagina instead of outside like most people think of.

What is amazing is many of the bill's backers ranted against the TSA as intrusive but specifically REQUIRE the most INTRUSIVE procedure for women seeking a LEGAL abortion.

What did Newt say about radical right social engineering...

before the radical right wing bit him in the butt???

WolfLarsen · 02-27-2012, 01:58 PM

Under capitalism there is this constant attack on women's rights! As I said before, women in the Soviet Union got the right to an abortion back in 1919. Women in the Soviet Union also got the right to vote a year before they got in the USA. Women in the Soviet Union also had free child care.

What we need to do is forget about the Democrats and Republicans. While the Republicans actively attack women's rights the Democrats ignore women's rights. What we need in the USA is a workers party that will fight for women's rights!

The Great Catpiss · 02-27-2012, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by WolfLarsen

Under capitalism there is this constant attack on women's rights! As I said before, women in the Soviet Union got the right to an abortion back in 1919. Women in the Soviet Union also got the right to vote a year before they got in the USA. Women in the Soviet Union also had free child care.

What we need to do is forget about the Democrats and Republicans. While the Republicans actively attack women's rights the Democrats ignore women's rights. What we need in the USA is a workers party that will fight for women's rights!

Capitalism has nothing to do with that. You seem to think that everything is 2 dimensional. It isn't.

I can play your game. It sounds like communists don't give a damn about a baby's rights.

The reality is , it's much more complex than you are trying to imply.

WickedLou9 · 02-28-2012, 11:23 AM

Capitalism has a positive impact on rights. Since under true capitalism, no transaction takes place unless two parties find the agreement mutually beneficial. Under socialism, the government dictates which transactions may and may not take place.

notquiteright · 02-28-2012, 01:01 PM

True capitalism doesn't exist and I doubt it ever can.

Two social and wealth equals MIGHT be able to transact on an equal footing but in real life that is like hens teeth.

Leverage and price wars are more the norm. Advantage is often ruthlessly exploited. The average worker could be reduced to serfdom as there is no real 'invisible hand' directing the interactions.

As symbolized by the yin/yang swirl, the concepts of capitalism and socialism work to either bring out the best or worst in how we interact.

WickedLou9 · 02-28-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by notquiteright

True capitalism doesn't exist and I doubt it ever can.

Two social and wealth equals MIGHT be able to transact on an equal footing but in real life that is like hens teeth.

Leverage and price wars are more the norm. Advantage is often ruthlessly exploited. The average worker could be reduced to serfdom as there is no real 'invisible hand' directing the interactions.

As symbolized by the yin/yang swirl, the concepts of capitalism and socialism work to either bring out the best or worst in how we interact.

reality never really exactly fits an idealized theory or model. reality is much more messy.

notquiteright · 02-28-2012, 03:14 PM

Amen to that brother Lou! Testify up in here!

Aint nothing so simple it fits on a bumper sticker built a nation. No system is all good or pure. I shake my head as much over the socialists claiming the superior system as the capitalists insisting they lead the way.

wanna be drummer · 02-28-2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by notquiteright

Amen to that brother Lou! Testify up in here!

Aint nothing so simple it fits on a bumper sticker built a nation. No system is all good or pure. I shake my head as much over the socialists claiming the superior system as the capitalists insisting they lead the way.

So pragmatism is the only answer?

notquiteright · 02-29-2012, 03:27 AM

Pragmatism is a bad thing?

Who said it was the only answer? This bullshit all or nothing mindset is the root cause of much of the problem.

WolfLarsen · 02-29-2012, 10:18 PM

The bottom line is –Trotskyists (who are today's communists) fight for free abortion on demand. Liberals fight for abortion rights for those who can pay for it. Conservatives are against abortion rights.

And with the Stalinists it all depends – some of them are for abortion rights and others are against it. But Stalinism seems to be dying...

wanna be drummer · 02-29-2012, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by notquiteright

Pragmatism is a bad thing?

It can be, yes.

Who said it was the only answer? This bullshit all or nothing mindset is the root cause of much of the problem.

Who said it? You.

Without idealism, you're suggesting we take of the path of doing what works or whats practical. Taking what works from differing philosophies and frankensteining them together, it's a crude form of pragmatism that you're suggesting is it not?

wanna be drummer · 02-29-2012, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by WolfLarsen

And with the Stalinists it all depends – some of them are for abortion rights and others are against it. But Stalinism seems to be dying...

Anybody who buys into anything Joseph Stalin ever said is a complete lunatic and needs to be treated as such

The Esteemed Gentleman · 02-29-2012, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

Anybody who buys into anything Joseph Stalin ever said is a complete lunatic and needs to be treated as such

wanna be drummer · 02-29-2012, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Esteemed Gentleman

But for cereal, the Soviet Union was so far behind the rest of the world in most aspects of society and government under Stalin, a sponge would have been a better party leader. He and his "state planners" couldn't get shit done so they murdered a few million people to make them productive. Ironically, it actually worked, but the quality of production was shit, the black market was more efficient and, oh yeah, millions of people were killed or died of famine.

For the Motherland!

notquiteright · 03-01-2012, 06:06 PM

While we seem to have eagle eyes when it comes to the E-Vile Commie Leaders, we tend to forget capitalism, pre-union (commie), left behind quite a few killed, maimed and left in the gutter fellow citizens.

While we were governed by some of the girthiest Presidents ever elected to the high office, the average factory worker lived in a tenement slum, coal miners died spitting up their own lungs, and widows with their children were turned out into the streets if the father died on the job.

Now the deaths were not in massive waves, more like a constant meat grinder...ahh the 'gilded age'.