Question for those who oppose a minimum wage

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Do you also oppose overtime laws and child labor laws?

[Phantom]

OT law doesn't really do much

The child labor laws protect children more from their parents than exploitave employers. I don't mind the child labor laws for that reason.

[Publius]

Child labor laws, no. There has been a wealth of evidence over the years that forcing a child to work can be detrimental to their development, and since they can't even engage in a contract themselves I don't think they should be able to work. Obviously once you get a little older, around 16 like it is now, you still can't engage in a contract but you're (typically) more self-aware and then it becomes a decision between parent and child.

As for overtime laws, they aren't really something I've considered. They are useful in helping to prevent companies from demanding employees work 18 hour days, but at the same time they can be detrimental if an employee wants to work extra but the employer won't let them because they don't want to pay time and a half.

[thomez]

child labor laws are fine

how overtime will work should be part of the agreement made between employee and employer when they agree on the terms of the job, the pay, the benefits, etc

[Publius]

Originally Posted by thomez

child labor laws are fine

how overtime will work should be part of the agreement made between employee and employer when they agree on the terms of the job, the pay, the benefits, etc

Overtime should be a contractual agreement between employer/employee.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Publius

Overtime should be a contractual agreement between employer/employee.

[kinggovernor]

child labor laws, yes they aren't full citizens yet.

overtime should be something you work out with your employer

[thomez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

child labor laws, yes they aren't full citizens yet.

overtime should be something you work out with your employer

repost

[lew]

Originally Posted by thomez

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

and since they can't even engage in a contract themselves I don't think they should be able to work.

Yeah, but of what relevance is the ability to contract when you have employment at will, i.e., no contract? The whole idea of employment at will is that neither party is bound to do anything, and either can get out of the relationship at any time for any reason.

[lew]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, but of what relevance is the ability to contract when you have employment at will, i.e., no contract? The whole idea of employment at will is that neither party is bound to do anything, and either can get out of the relationship at any time for any reason.

The whole idea of libertarianism is the idea of a contractual society.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, but of what relevance is the ability to contract when you have employment at will, i.e., no contract? The whole idea of employment at will is that neither party is bound to do anything, and either can get out of the relationship at any time for any reason.

employment at will does not mean "no contract"

employment at will states still have plenty of employees under contractual agreement

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by thomez

employment at will does not mean "no contract"

employment at will states still have plenty of employees under contractual agreement

Okay, allow me to clarify...employment at will states still allow for the possibility of contract, it's just that absent evidence of a contract, you're presumed to have no employment contract, and either party can end the relationship at any time for any reason. For those people who fall under the "employment at will, no contract" category, of what relevance is the ability to form employment contracts when there is none?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

So basically, exploiting adults is okay, but not children, amirite?

[lew]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

So basically, exploiting adults is okay, but not children, amirite?

If an adult is exploited....he can leave.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by lew

If an adult is exploited....he can leave.

children can't leave jobs? well...sorta...they technically can, but they can be coerced by the people in power to not leave and their families may force them to keep shitty jobs although they want to leave...wait, everything I just said applies to adults too.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, allow me to clarify...employment at will states still allow for the possibility of contract, it's just that absent evidence of a contract, you're presumed to have no employment contract, and either party can end the relationship at any time for any reason. For those people who fall under the "employment at will, no contract" category, of what relevance is the ability to form employment contracts when there is none?

if they have any expectations of their employer, they better get it in writing

what a novel idea, a contract!

[thomez]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

So basically, exploiting adults is okay, but not children, amirite?

children are protected by the state, this is nothing new

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by thomez

if they have any expectations of their employer, they better get it in writing

what a novel idea, a contract!

I don't see what this has to do with the subject. Someone said the reason child labor laws should stay is that children aren't able to enter into contracts. I'm simply saying that a lot of labor arrangements involve no contracts, so that argument doesn't carry much weight.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by thomez

children are protected by the state, this is nothing new

Same goes for adults via minimum wage and overtime laws.