walmart says "merry christmas"

[Diamond Cross]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Jeez, why do some Christians make such a big deal over evolution? who cares? why don't you just go the way of the catholics and accept evolution, saying it's the "how" of the way god works, and religion is the "why"?

Having been raised Catholic, it's pretty strange to see some Christians act as if their entire belief system is staked on evolution not being true.

They feel threatened because evolution takes God out of the equasion. But evolution isn't neccessarily anti-God.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

The scientific community doesn't even accept it as fact. That is why it is called the "Theory of Evolution".

And there is a difference between the FACT of natural beings evolving to suit their evironments and saying that evolution is how everything began.

While you are correct there is a significant difference between a theory and having faith in something.

Theory:

a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.

Faith:

belief that is not based on proof

[imind]

It happened the OTHER way round. Primarily athiest/agnostic groups called upon municipalities, school districts, state and county governments to remove any reference to Christmas because it offended them.

we're now discussing two different things - saying happy holidays versus merry christmas, and nativity scenes on public property. these are two separate issues.

And to call this a Republican scam is just laughable (though FNC does know how to spin it in to ratings).

it was used as gay marriage and abortions as a call to arms to conservatives. its undeniable. whether the GOP was specifically responsible is irrelevant.

It is supposed to be a time of celebration. Celebrating the birth of the son of God, etc.

for christians, yes, but to others its merely a celebration. and it was placed in december purposefully, as far as i understand, to replace a pagan festival.

And I agree, such law suits are huge wastes of time and energy and finances. We are paying for it though. The basis in law is flawed. It is a liberal judges interpretation of a law. Hence the term "Legislating from the bench".

nonsense, and worthy of its own thread. it was a christian judge who first borrowed jeffersons words form that letter.

The fact that groups sued cities to make them remove Nativity scenes or references to "Christmas" from public holiday schedules means nothing? Come on.

While others were allowed to stay...

i've seen this claim made a dozen times and have never seen evidence of it. gotta link?

If we want to be academically accurate (and not just anti-God), we have to acknowledge that Evolution is just a theory. A theory that has empirical support, but not enough to make it fact. Right now, it is taught as the ONLY possibility and as fact. That is not academically honest.

understand that theory's do not graduate to become facts, or laws. science does not seeks proofs, they are reserved for mathematics, logic, and liquor.

evolution is one of the most well-supported theories in all areas of science. it is both fact and theory; the fact that evolution happens/has happened in undeniable, the only theoretical area of it is its mechanistic processes.

I do believe in evolution. I just don't believe it to be the begining.

again, an error on your part. evolution speaks nothing of origins, it only seeks to account for the diversity of life.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Sean Hannity and Walmart today were defiant of the enemies of christmas by declaring "MERRY CHRISTMAS" instead of happy holidays. Ladies and gentlemen, the War on christmas is OVER.

Christmas 1 ... uh.. happy holidays 0? Christmas wins?

The war on Christmas thing is so ridiculous. "Holiday" is just as Christian as "Christmas."

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The war on Christmas thing is so ridiculous. "Holiday" is just as Christian as "Christmas."

People are completely missing the point about this whole thing.

It's not the use of the word, or what word takes its place. It's the REASON that people are changing the word that is used. People are saying 'we can't say Merry Christmas because we might offend someone that isn't a Christian'.

That excuse, no matter who uses it, is pretty lame, especially in a country that is 70% Christian, and 99% of the remaining 30% don't give a damn.

[ballz2wallz]

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

People are saying 'we can't say Merry Christmas because we might offend someone that isn't a Christian'.

That excuse, no matter who uses it, is pretty lame, especially in a country that is 70% Christian, and 99% of the remaining 30% don't give a damn.

You know what's even more lame? Your giving a shit about what words people use to describe holidays. If people want to go for a generic, inclusive term, then let them.

Even if Walmart replaced "Christmas" with holidays because they didn't want to offend people, it was their own choice. What business of yours is it to act as the Christian tradition police and criticize private businesses for trying to be as inclusive as possible for the most profit?

You're becoming the very thing you're criticizing...you're being PC yourself, just on the conservative side.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You know what's even more lame? Your giving a shit about what words people use to describe holidays. If people want to go for a generic, inclusive term, then let them.

Even if Walmart replaced "Christmas" with holidays because they didn't want to offend people, it was their own choice. What business of yours is it to act as the Christian tradition police and criticize private businesses for trying to be as inclusive as possible for the most profit?

You're becoming the very thing you're criticizing...you're being PC yourself, just on the conservative side.

I just said that wasn't the issue that was in the middle of the controversy here

Since you didn't fully quote me, allow me to fill in the blank

It's not the use of the word, or what word takes its place.

[Thomas Crown]

Pretty much, yes.

[Thomas Crown]

True, but most people who argue evolution against creation ARE trying to take God out of the equation.

[Thomas Crown]

I wasn't comparing the two.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

The fact that groups sued cities to make them remove Nativity scenes or references to "Christmas" from public holiday schedules means nothing? Come on.

Christians never went out in any concerted effort to say "Don't let those dirty Jews say chanukkah, and don't let those dirty Afrikans say Kwanza, and don't let those dirty athiests say happy holidays!". It happened the OTHER way round. Primarily athiest/agnostic groups called upon municipalities, school districts, state and county governments to remove any reference to Christmas because it offended them.

Please do not pretend this didn't happen. And to call this a Republican scam is just laughable (though FNC does know how to spin it in to ratings).

LINK to broad lawsuits against the use of the word christmas or other christmas references?

A yes there was, and to my knowledge still is a large well funded conservative group with tie to the republican party that has a campaign to increase to use of the word 'christmas'.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not interpreting it, I'm reading it. Those who disguise their anti-religious antics under the concept of 'separation of church and state' are the ones that have somehow 'interpreted' the constitution to fit their needs.

Please, show me where it says that the government is to be completely separated from anything religious.

Yeah and we don't have to pay income taxes, blah blah blah. There are things that are accepted, ruled a certain way, and will forever be interpreted a certain way whether you think someone didn't cross a t or not.

[imind]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

True, but most people who argue evolution against creation ARE trying to take God out of the equation.

nonsense. most christians accept evolution - theistic evolution.

[TheScatman]

I'd like to jump in and give my thoughts on why religious people always talk about this "war on christmas". it because some religious parents are basically forced to send their kids to a secular school (since they cant afford to double pay into the gov't monopoly schools via taxes and then private school) so in some sense they are being coerced into supporting secularism.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

I'd like to jump in and give my thoughts on why religious people always talk about this "war on christmas". it because some religious parents are basically forced to send their kids to a secular school (since they cant afford to double pay into the gov't monopoly schools via taxes and then private school) so in some sense they are being coerced into supporting secularism.

True, I also don't have the money to fund my own gun collection and electric fence because I have to pay taxes for the police and judges, so they are forcing their legal system on me.

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

True, I also don't have the money to fund my own gun collection and electric fence because I have to pay taxes for the police and judges, so they are forcing their legal system on me.

well I think free-rider arguments are a lot more powerful for goods like security and courts as opposed to education. for example, people have the incentive to educate themselves even if I am paying for my education (for the obvious reasons of higher wages, etc.). however if all neighbors pay for the secuirty firm, some people may not and end up okay.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

I'd like to jump in and give my thoughts on why religious people always talk about this "war on christmas". it because some religious parents are basically forced to send their kids to a secular school (since they cant afford to double pay into the gov't monopoly schools via taxes and then private school) so in some sense they are being coerced into supporting secularism.

What does going to school have anything to do with not being allowed to have nativity scenes on public property or say 'Merry Christmas' at work?

[Diamond Cross]

Some schools are being sued for those Nativity scenes under the pretense of Separation From Chuch and State. I suspect the same for some workplaces.

In America in the modern age if something is offensive to anyone, that person can levy a lawsuit against it. The sad thing is that they can win these kinds of frivolous lawsuits which only hurts the case for legitamit lawsuits. One of the leading proponents of these kinds of lawsuits is the ACLU.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Some schools are being sued for those Nativity scenes under the pretense of Separation From Chuch and State. I suspect the same for some workplaces.

In America in the modern age if something is offensive to anyone, that person can levy a lawsuit against it. The sad thing is that they can win these kinds of frivolous lawsuits which only hurts the case for legitamit lawsuits. One of the leading proponents of these kinds of lawsuits is the ACLU.

and I quote myself from the first page:
"This happy holidays vs. merry christmas campaign has got to be the greatest conservative misdirection campaign I've ever seen in my life. Out of no where last year you started seeing across fox news titles of "WAR on Christmas". The GOP organizes a multi-million dollar campaign that actually convinces Americans there is some crazy conspiracy against the use of the word christmas and companies that are saying happy holidays are following the slippery slope of PC. Toss some accusations the way of ACLU and bam, everyone is a patriotic christian american again.