Catching Up to 1968 Act of 2012.

David · 06-08-2012, 09:56 AM

The Catching Up to 1968 Act of 2012

If passed, the min wage would be raised to $10/hr within 60 days and adjusted for inflation every year.

stolz25 · 06-08-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by David

The Catching Up to 1968 Act of 2012

If passed, the min wage would be raised to $10/hr within 60 days and adjusted for inflation every year.

This will certainly fix our economic difficulties.

David · 06-08-2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by stolz25

This will certainly fix our economic difficulties.

I'm not really sure an immediate increase is such a good idea (not that I'd complain

) but a min wage that doesn't meet the cost of living defeats the purpose. An increase is needed.

Donkey® · 06-08-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by stolz25

This will certainly fix our economic difficulties.

Let me guess, you don't think there should be a minimum wage at all or are you actually for one?

stolz25 · 06-08-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by David

I'm not really sure an immediate increase is such a good idea (not that I'd complain ) but a min wage that doesn't meet the cost of living defeats the purpose. An increase is needed.

Why do you treat the symptom rather than the disease? Stop inflating the currency and you stop having cost of living increases.

Donkey® · 06-08-2012, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by stolz25

Why do you treat the symptom rather than the disease? Stop inflating the currency and you stop having cost of living increases.

So no...you don't think there should be one.

stolz25 · 06-08-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So no...you don't think there should be one.

I definitely we need to fix this problem of a declining real wage. However, this proposed solution is stupid. As I've already said it doesn't actually address the source of the issue.

And it only helps out the very bottom earners. Anyone else getting screwed by a decreasing dollar is still screwed.

Donkey® · 06-08-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by stolz25

I definitely we need to fix this problem of a declining real wage. However, this proposed solution is stupid. As I've already said it doesn't actually address the source of the issue.

And it only helps out the very bottom earners. Anyone else getting screwed by a decreasing dollar is still screwed.

I agree that this particular proposal is stupid. Won't solve a thing. But without a minimum wage you think there are no issues?

stolz25 · 06-08-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I agree that this particular proposal is stupid. Won't solve a thing. But without a minimum wage you think there are no issues?

I think that inflation causes the need for a minimum wage. The problem is that wages are extremely slow to adjust because they only happen when people renegotiate salaries or find other jobs. Assuming no inflation, the market would create it's own minimum wage of sorts over time. We have no idea what that wage would be at the moment though.

You can see the effects after a while with the same minimum wage as it is. Fewer jobs pay the minimum wage, especially on the east and west coasts.

Donkey® · 06-08-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by stolz25

I think that inflation causes the need for a minimum wage. The problem is that wages are extremely slow to adjust because they only happen when people renegotiate salaries or find other jobs. Assuming no inflation, the market would create it's own minimum wage of sorts over time. We have no idea what that wage would be at the moment though.

You can see the effects after a while with the same minimum wage as it is. Fewer jobs pay the minimum wage, especially on the east and west coasts.

But the problem is you're wanting this libertarian Ron Paul utopia where we just do everything he suggests and it will all work out. We're talking real world here where those changes can not be made.

So how do you work with what you have in reality to solve the issue?

stolz25 · 06-08-2012, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

But the problem is you're wanting this libertarian Ron Paul utopia where we just do everything he suggests and it will all work out. We're talking real world here where those changes can not be made.

So how do you work with what you have in reality to solve the issue?

If the changes can be made in the first place (untying the currency from gold) it can be unmade. The problem isn't that it's an unrealistic solution, the problem is it's a solution that forces people to admit they made a mistake.

Pretending that this isn't "in reality" in order to save some egos is rather silly. There are a lot of people who make a lot of money from the system they way it is, and those people have spent a good deal of time and money telling the public a gold system won't work and that a little inflation is needed in order for the economy to grow.

If you're telling me that I can't come up with a real solution you guys can do whatever you want and I'll just wait for the dollar to collapse. It's well on it's way anyway.

Donkey® · 06-08-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by stolz25

If the changes can be made in the first place (untying the currency from gold) it can be unmade. The problem isn't that it's an unrealistic solution, the problem is it's a solution that forces people to admit they made a mistake.

We get it. It was a mistake. So was the Bay of Pigs. Can't do anything about it now without making an even bigger blunder.

Originally Posted by stolz25

Pretending that this isn't "in reality" in order to save some egos is rather silly. There are a lot of people who make a lot of money from the system they way it is, and those people have spent a good deal of time and money telling the public a gold system won't work and that a little inflation is needed in order for the economy to grow.

A gold system MAY work (is it even employed anywhere today?) but that's not what we have and that's not the question at hand. With the system we DO HAVE, what do we do to fix our issues?

Originally Posted by stolz25

If you're telling me that I can't come up with a real solution you guys can do whatever you want and I'll just wait for the dollar to collapse. It's well on it's way anyway.

Ok. We'll wait.

kinggovernor · 06-08-2012, 04:14 PM

Are they intentionally trying to hurt low income people and teenagers?

Swift · 06-08-2012, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Are they intentionally trying to hurt low income people and teenagers?

Good question.

Here's my question, why should a minimum wage job be able to support a family/person all by itself? That's not what those low wage jobs were for. At least that's not what I thought. Teenagers, people low education and training and maybe retirees that are simply looking to keep busy, sure. But if we raise it to 10$ an hour, how many less people can a business hire?

The Great Catpiss · 06-11-2012, 11:21 AM

Increasing the min wage may be absolutely necessary for us to dig ourselves out of this mess. Certainly there are other things we can do, but I don't think any plan can ignore increasing minimum wage at this point.

There will be a great negative impact however. Jobs will be lost. Inflation will occur and harm many retirement accounts and plans. Profits will decrease making stocks look less attractive...

illavbill · 06-11-2012, 01:10 PM

Washington State's minimum wage is $9.xx an hour but housing around here varies. If you don't mind living in a fairly shitty area of town (hilltop in Tacoma... check out the history on Wiki), it's been getting cleaned up way less violence all the gangs are gone and the stupid low income housing where scumbags used to live got renovated. The scumbags have moved to Lakewood (crazy dude that killed those cops). You can find a good 2 Br. apartment for around $400/mo. If you're working full-time at a minimum wage job in WA you should be making almost $1200/mo after taxes. Granted, other "nicer" parts of Tacoma you'd be paying $1500-$3000/mo for housing but it'd be a stupid nice house. In WA at least, if you have to bread(small rolls lol) earners in the house making minimum wage you should be able to live on it. Maybe not in luxury, but not in squalor. The federal minimum wage def. needs to be raised tho.

stolz25 · 06-11-2012, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

Inflation will occur

Huh? Needing to increase the minimum wage is a result of inflation.

David · 06-11-2012, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by stolz25

Huh? Needing to increase the minimum wage is a result of inflation.

I think he's saying inflation would increase further. That's true but countered by the bill's yearly inflation adjustments to say nothing of the fact that inflation never exceeds the increase in wages (otherwise the idea of a min wage would have died long ago).

stolz25 · 06-12-2012, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by David

I think he's saying inflation would increase further. That's true but countered by the bill's yearly inflation adjustments to say nothing of the fact that inflation never exceeds the increase in wages (otherwise the idea of a min wage would have died long ago).

Even assuming you guys mean price inflation this makes no sense. Wages are just another price. They don't cause inflation any more than oil or wheat prices do. They are a result.

David · 06-12-2012, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by stolz25

Even assuming you guys mean price inflation this makes no sense. Wages are just another price. They don't cause inflation any more than oil or wheat prices do. They are a result.

And prices go up as bushiness try to preserve their bottom line. It's the main (if flawed) argument against a min wage.