Individual Mandated Ruled Constitutional - Page 4

The Great Catpiss · 07-03-2012, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Obamacare & the Coming Entrepreneurship Boom | Inc.com

" How many working parents do you know who would ditch their corporate jobs if they thought they could buy decent health insurance for their families in the individual marketplace?"
None? One maybe?

Entrepreneurs pretty much could always have gotten their own health insurance. What will their rates be? Only until very recently have prices skyrocketed.

Also, many entrepreneurs will get a 3.8% tax increase for Obamacare.

Donkey® · 07-03-2012, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

Only until very recently have prices skyrocketed.

Which was the point of trying to overhaul healthcare....prices were skyrocketing. They will level off and have caps now.

raps · 07-03-2012, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Which was the point of trying to overhaul healthcare....prices were skyrocketing. They will level off and have caps now.

Prices are going to go up now that there is no more lifetime maximum, no denials, and a set minimum coverage. What caps are you talking about? Nobody set caps on prices if that's what you are trying to say.

Increasing the pool will in no way lower prices because the people who will be getting insurance are not nearly enough to offset the things that will increase coverage and many of them will be the previously uninsurable that can't be denied any longer because of their preexisting conditions that made it excessively expensive if they managed to get insurance.

DosEquis · 07-03-2012, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by raps

Prices are going to go up now that there is no more lifetime maximum, no denials, and a set minimum coverage. What caps are you talking about? Nobody set caps on prices if that's what you are trying to say.

Increasing the pool will in no way lower prices because the people who will be getting insurance are not nearly enough to offset the things that will increase coverage and many of them will be the previously uninsurable that can't be denied any longer because of their preexisting conditions that made it excessively expensive if they managed to get insurance.

I love have casual you are about uninsurable. Just kill the fucker. Take him to the vet.

Now, lets apply reality.

What happens to the guy who is uninsurable? He goes to the ER. Guess who pays for that? We all do through expensive things at the hospital, medicare/medicaid, etc. When he doesn't have insurance he is on the "single payer" or "socialist" system that we all pay for. Unless he is rich but he won't be rich for very long.

What happens now that he has insurance and is contributing? We pay less of his medical bills. What happens if he decides he doesn't want to get insurance? He pays extra in taxes to help cover the cost.

raps · 07-03-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I love have casual you are about uninsurable. Just kill the fucker. Take him to the vet.

Now, lets apply reality.

What happens to the guy who is uninsurable? He goes to the ER. Guess who pays for that? We all do through expensive things at the hospital, medicare/medicaid, etc. When he doesn't have insurance he is on the "single payer" or "socialist" system that we all pay for. Unless he is rich but he won't be rich for very long.

What happens now that he has insurance and is contributing? We pay less of his medical bills. What happens if he decides he doesn't want to get insurance? He pays extra in taxes to help cover the cost.

Is he going to be able to afford insurance? Just because he can no longer be denied doesn't mean the coverage is going to be affordable. That's why the government included a hefty subsidy system in this whole thing isn't it?

DosEquis · 07-03-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by raps

Is he going to be able to afford insurance? Just because he can no longer be denied doesn't mean the coverage is going to be affordable. That's why the government included a hefty subsidy system in this whole thing isn't it?

There are a whole series of things that need to take place to bring the costs down. If I recall there are 16 states that have started on things like building those insurance pooling networks.

Medical processing needs to get as paperless as possible. This reduces errors, thus increases quality of care, and reduces costs. This is already in progress but it will take time.

There are a number of scenarios and "what if" things we can apply to it. The bottom line is this will be a long work in progress. This, if executed correctly, will help control cost growth when it shakes out. Currently it is a half ass law/program because thats all they could get passed.

If the uninsurable guy is working there is likely some way that is going to get some money from him to help pay for his almost certain medical expenses. The rules were employers have to attempt to cover him. Or maybe his employer already offers benefits but now he'll actually be able to enroll in them. Or maybe none of that is true but his employer will opt for the fine (I mean tax) and maybe he chooses to opt for the fine (I mean tax) as well. Either way this guy needs medical care and as long as he is working we'll at least get some of those costs accounted for.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot · 08-05-2012, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by raps

I'm leaning toward thinking Roberts decision on this was weighted toward keeping the president and his administration off the scotus. The admin has been incredibly critical of the scotus the past four years and have been issuing veiled threats about how they better make the right decision on this case. The admin insisted it was not a tax in the hearings so why did the scotus rule that it is constitutional under the taxing powers saying it is a tax?

Something just doesn't quite add up here with this ruling.

It was ruled to be not a tax so that SCOTUS could hear the case, (convenient eh?). Then Roberts reversed his previous stance to rule it a tax so that it could be upheld! Flip flop that has dangerous and immediate dire consequences for the Republic and our Constitution. Robets folded from pressure and decided he didnt want to be an outcast for the rest of his life instead of doing his sworn duty!
Keep it up and you'll find soon that you to will be an outcast here is my prediction.For the Gods here simply hate to be bested..
Got to go spent too much time here already.. Good luck amigo.-Tyr

David · 08-06-2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

It was ruled to be not a tax so that SCOTUS could hear the case, (convenient eh?). Then Roberts reversed his previous stance to rule it a tax so that it could be upheld! Flip flop that has dangerous and immediate dire consequences for the Republic and our Constitution. Robets folded from pressure and decided he didnt want to be an outcast for the rest of his life instead of doing his sworn duty!
Keep it up and you'll find soon that you to will be an outcast here is my prediction.For the Gods here simply hate to be bested..
Got to go spent too much time here already.. Good luck amigo.-Tyr

Please, if you think the Constitution survived the 1860s, you're an idiot.

The Great Catpiss · 08-06-2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by David

Please, if you think the Constitution survived the 1860s, you're an idiot.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot · 08-10-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by David

Please, if you think the Constitution survived the 1860s, you're an idiot.

If you think that what's left of the Constitution will survive a second obama term you are the bigger idiot! His agenda is to remake this nation and not have our Constitution as an obstacle to his fantasy leftist paradise. Your ignorance/blindness is awesome, way to go genius!-

David · 08-10-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

If you think that what's left of the Constitution will survive a second obama term you are the bigger idiot! His agenda is to remake this nation and not have our Constitution as an obstacle to his fantasy leftist paradise. Your ignorance/blindness is awesome, way to go genius!-

Leftist... That's a good 1. Obama is about as left as Reagan and Thatcher.