Folk Music Thread

goldenponderbob · 11-12-2006, 01:26 PM

Hello to all at LL,

ballz2wallz responded to my bio with a notion for a thread on folk music.

I can't offer any high-tech stuff like "midi"; in fact, don't even know how
to download, or what an IPOD is.

I've been nuts about folk music since I walked into a music store and heard Joan Baez.

Way back in time when I was a kid, when vinyl records was all there was, music stores had listening booths where you hear stuff before committing to a purchase.

I remember like it was yesterday . . .

I heard Joan singing a song called "copper kettle". The lyrics recounted the famous 1792 whiskey rebellion which erupted as a response to the newly enacted federal tax on liqour. It was the same stuff I had just been reading about; but from the whiskey makers point of view.

The problem basically was that people in western Pennsylvania were being penalized unfairly for their product. They could not transport fresh corn to markets along the coast over the roads that ran over the mountains inbetween. So they distilled their corn and brought the product over in barrels which they could transport. Hamilton, treasury secretary under Washington, in order to establish the authority of the new government, created the federal liqour tax which stole their profits.

That a song could capture the essence (pun-intentional) of the conflict to me seemed magical.

To a kid raised on moronic stuff like, "Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket" it was as though a new universe had opened.

I'm now on my second copy of Joan's album, having worn the grooves smooth on the first. But I don't play vinyl anymore, I copy to cassette (I'm okay with low-tech).

The thing about Joan is how easily she shifts between contemporary and traditional. She opens doors by moving between dissimilar styles.

I would be happy to list favorite artists, or share chorded lyrics in the shorthand I use for learning to play them on guitar.

The most recent song I've been trying to get comfortable playing is Leonard Cohen's "Sisters Of Mercy". Its an old song from the 60's I never bothered with until I heard Emilou Harris and Linda Ronstadt do it on their "Western Wall" album.

I'm like that: suddenly a song that was a big nothing will suddenly become an Everest to be conquered. All I can think of is "it's time was right".

I like most everything, but harmony, especially male/female, knocks my socks off.

If you have ever heard Tom Russell, a kind of tex-mex version of Gordon Lightfoot, who does most of material with female accompaniment; he's been my current favorite for about ten years now.

Enough for now,

goldenponderbob

ballz2wallz · 11-12-2006, 02:31 PM

Ah I love Emilou Harris.

The most recent cd I got (or was given as a gift for no reason...those are the best!) is Gob Iron. Check them out, listen to their music!

It's a collaborative effort by Jay Farrar (of Uncle Tupelo, Son Volt, and his solo career) and Anders Parker (of Varnaline). Fantastic stuff.

avsp · 11-13-2006, 10:16 AM

The landscape of the Brit folk scene is still largely defined by the split engendered by the (almost certainly politically inspired) purist diktats of scene king Ewan MacColl, (father of pop-tastic, Kirstie, lover of Peggy Seeger & writer of 'Dirty ol'Town' a hit for the Pogues)

Ewan was a fierce proponent who was of the 'old', fol-der-rol finger-in -ear school. who resisted the US influences of the blues & Woody Guthrie &, in an almost Stalinist fashion, forced those who differed from the 'circuit'.

Early signs of this schism gave rose to skiffle, (paleo-pre-punk, ..., so infused with the DIY ethic that you even made your own instruments) & the breakthru tune being the Lonnie Donegan version of 'Rock Island Line'

To this day this track remains as being seen as crucial to the development of UK Rock Music & belies the enormous legacy owed by US folk to the blues.

It is, of course, typically perversive that a Brit pretending to be a Sep should signal the birth of British Rock but such is the weirdness of life, ..., or so I find.

I'm given to believe that the question of the relationship between the blues & folk remains a contentious one over there, ..., GOOD!

Either way, returning to Blighty's folk history, it is often argued that this geezer's multiple substance misuse problems hindered a successfully popular unification of the blues & more the more traditional British/Irish folk.

As it was, instead we got the awful prog-rock/folk crossover of the very-late-60/very-early-70's, that I refuse to write about in the hope that it ceases to have ever existed even in the pages of history

Still, ..., well rated survivors of this historical catastrophe are Maddy Prior, June Tabor & Richard Thompson

By the late seventies punk was the new folk & most notably, the unrelentingly political Billy Bragg took up the standard of Woody Guthrie. Incidentally his reworking of Route 66 into A13 is a great favourite of mine & to complete the circle Krstie Maccoll had a hit with his song "New England", ..., she also shared the honours with the Pogues on the, now, Xmas classic "Fairytale of New York"

Other notable current Brit folky types include Terry Callister but I'm now too drunk to sort out links, ..., sorry

It is a convention of ours to be as predictably provocative as possible & in this tradition I would like to contend that not only is the blues folk music but hip-hop is as well. Any disputing this position are quite simply wrong & in need of a swift thumping to persuade them otherwise

Below are a bunch of youtube links for the interested &/or curious.

Lonnie Donegan

Pogues

Davey Graham

Richard Thompson

Billy Bragg

Maddy Prior
link deleted coz she's currently involved in some kind of Arthurian Quest-type tour thingy that includes Glastonbury & Roslyn Chapel, ..., f*cking hippies etc.

This has been an official Enforcement Division Communication. File No, Sep 06-35953/LL01/56/folk/

[edit to add] Only the Richard Thompson is unashamededly 'folk', ..., probably

avsp · 11-13-2006, 10:22 AM

I'm not a big Ronstadt fan, .., Baez is ok but has she had her day?

Of her generation I also likle Buffy St Marie

Loudon Wainwright is aldo often good for a laugh

But in truth I prefer rock, ..., its the anger in some folk that appeals to me & the less I hear about what happened in 'the month of may, ..., etc' the better.

& welcome to LL gpb

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 10:22 AM

I had tickets to see The Pogues last year with my Irish bartender friend, but I was too sick to go.

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by avsp

Of her generation I also likle Buffy St Marie

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee

goldenponderbob · 11-13-2006, 10:48 AM

When Johnny Cash passed, CNN ran an interview in which he fielded the query. "Who's your favorite"? I think I knew the answer before he replied.

If you haven't already, you might want to check out two albums called
"Trio" by Ronstadt, Harris and Dolly Parton. You'll fiind great versions
of N. Young's "After The Goldrush" and Springstein's "Across The Border".

And, for a chuckle, visit one of Ronstadt's sites and read about how
tough it was to work with Ms. Parton. Tough but worth the effort.

Ronstadt didn't do much that would be considered folk, but one traditional
tune she recorded with James Taylor called "One Morning In May" has harmonies that, well, the word "perfect" comes to mind.

By the way, in the world of folk, James' brother Livingston is actually
the bigger deal. He can be heard on many albums doing backups for
"unknowns".

Enough for Now,

goldenponderbob

goldenponderbob · 11-15-2006, 10:55 AM

Thanks AVSP, for reminding me about some of my favorite people.

Loudon, otherwise known as LWIII, or Captain Spalding for MASH fans,
is an absolute master of the folk form. He uses his art as psychotherapy.
He writes anthems for himself and lets us in on his pain, which he frequently chooses to face via humor.

It's out of a strange kind of respect that I never tried to learn to play any
of his compostions.

I'd like to add thoughts about others you mentioned, especially Maddy,
Prior, who's work I know primarily via Steel Eye Span, and Buffy, soon.

It's strange, albeit unfunny, how there's rarely been a moment in time
when "Univeral Soldier" doesn't apply.

More later, if others want to continue this thread.

goldenponderbob

ballz2wallz · 11-15-2006, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by goldenponderbob

More later, if others want to continue this thread.

Let's do; I read and take notes carefully. Being a folk music fan, I need to know the real roots.

goldenponderbob · 11-16-2006, 10:37 AM

Thinking about Captain Spalding, I noticed the season was right for one of my favorite compositions of his.

Suddenly It's Christmas by Loudonn Wainright III (circa 1993)

Suddenly it's Christmas, right after Hallowe'en.
Forget about Thanksgiving, that's just a buffet in between.
There's lights and tinsel in the windows; they're stocking up the shelves;
Santa's slaving at the North Pole, in his sweatshop full of elves.

There's got to be a build-up, To the day that Christ was born:
The halls are decked with pumpkins, And the ears of Indian corn.
Dragging through the falling leaves, In a one-horse open sleigh,
Suddenly it's Christmas, seven weeks before the day.

Suddenly it's Christmas, our longest holiday.
When they say "Season's Greetings" they mean just what they say:
It's a season, a marathon, retail eternity.
It's not over till it's over And you throw away the tree.

Outside it's positively balmy, In the air nary a nip;
Suddenly it's Christmas, Unbuttoned and unzipped.
Yes, they're working overtime, Santa's little runts;
Christmas comes but once a year and goes on for two months.

Christmas carols in December, and November, too;
It's no wonder we're depressed, when the whole thing is through.
Finally it's January, let's sing "Auld Lang Syne";
But here comes another heartache, shaped like a Valentine.

Suddenly it's Christmas, our longest holiday.
The season is upon us; like a pox, it won't go away.
It's a season, a marathon, retail eternity.
It's not over till it's over, when you throw away the tree.

No, it's not over till it's over, when you throw away the tree;

No, It's still not over till it's over, now go throw away the tree.

Hope this brings get a chuckle,
goldenponderbob

Vietvet · 11-23-2006, 09:01 AM

I saw Joan Baez in '67, performing at the Washington monument, and it was an experience I'll never forget. I was stationed at Ft. Meade, Maryland in an Army medical unit at the time. I'll always remember how that voice of hers soared over the crowd and pierced like a knife as she sang "Joe Hill."a GREAT ARTIST, INDEED.

Bob Dylan's early albums, I've always thought, were some of the greatest groundbreakers in the history of folk "protest" music, and some are still as relevant today as they were back then, in the early sixties. Woody Guthrie was a great artist and Bob's inspiration when he started out. Guthrie's songs were pro-union and anti-establishment way back before it was "cool." I've got a CD of Guthrie, and some of the stuff he wrote was unbelievably over the top, especially when you consider that this was in the 30s.

Then there was Phil Ochs, who tragically took his own life sometime in the seventies. As far as "protest" songs, he was just as prolific as Dylan. Judy Collins was and still is an excellent singer, imo.

The late great Townes Van Zandt, to me, is the finest songwriter ever to come out of my great state of Texas (Sorry, Willie,you're 2nd). I don't know how well he was known outside the lone star state, but his fans know we lost a giant when he passed away a few years back.

There are so many others, but these are the artists that I've always been most "moved" by. Thanks for starting this thread. As a guitar player/singer myself (I do it as a hobby these days)this is a very interesting topic to me.

Oh yeah, one last guy for the list: Roy Bookbinder, one of the greatest interpreters of Piedmont-style blues on acoustic guitar that I've ever heard.

goldenponderbob · 11-23-2006, 02:12 PM

Thanks Vietvet,

You reminded me about a time many years ago when I dragged my sister
to a Joan Baez concert. Before the rise of "singer/songwriters", when a
person needed a near perfect voice to be successful, she was a conduit
for many "unknowns". She took the time and waded through vast heaps
of mediocrity to find the gems she recorded, and in so doing, allowed a
deserving few to have careers instead of hobbies.

Back in 03' she recorded Greg Brown's great song "Sleeper" on a CD called
"Dark Chords On A Big Giutar". Baez still has a large fan base, including
many who would never have come in contact with a GB tune on theri own.

Others you listed are among my favorites, escpecially Och (also a Baez favorite).

Among TV Zandt songs, my two favorites are: Panch & Lefty (yes,
I caught the Willie connection), and Tecumseh Valley (also called
"Caroline" by some). I have played both for many years and never
get tired of either.

All for now, but keep the folk flame burning,

goldenponderbob

Vietvet · 11-24-2006, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by goldenponderbob

Thanks Vietvet,

You reminded me about a time many years ago when I dragged my sister
to a Joan Baez concert. Before the rise of "singer/songwriters", when a
person needed a near perfect voice to be successful, she was a conduit
for many "unknowns". She took the time and waded through vast heaps
of mediocrity to find the gems she recorded, and in so doing, allowed a
deserving few to have careers instead of hobbies.

Back in 03' she recorded Greg Brown's great song "Sleeper" on a CD called
"Dark Chords On A Big Giutar". Baez still has a large fan base, including
many who would never have come in contact with a GB tune on theri own.

Others you listed are among my favorites, escpecially Och (also a Baez favorite).

Among TV Zandt songs, my two favorites are: Panch & Lefty (yes,
I caught the Willie connection), and Tecumseh Valley (also called
"Caroline" by some). I have played both for many years and never
get tired of either.

All for now, but keep the folk flame burning,

goldenponderbob

Acoustic music will always be around, I think, because there's only so much you can do with electronics and technology without making it sound robotic and impersonal. Now, I'm a guy who also plays electric guitar, and can crank out the Hendrix/Page stuff pretty well, too. But I always find myself going back to the fingerpicking styles that were started way back when, some no doubt by medievel balladeers, others by the likes of Blues greats Robert Johnson and Gary Davis.

Townes Van Zandt wrote so many songs that aren't familiar with many people. "Pauncho and Lefty" probably made him more $$ than any other. I like "Mr. Mudd and Mr. Gold", "Dollar Bill Blues", and "Waitin' Around to Die." These are songs that are personal and seem to reflect many aspects of the human condition, from joy to despair. Unfortunately,TVZ was a heavy drinker and a gambler, and his hard living finally got the best of him. He used to play around here quite a bit (San Antonio), and I talked to him several times. He was very approachable, never had an ego problem, was always glad to talk to anyone. Most importantly, this guy was the "real deal", and actually lived the life of the "wandering gypsy" singer-songwriter. It's a shame he died so young,at the age of 53 or so.

Another guy I didn't mention is actually more of an acoustic guitarist than a folk singer, but I've never heard anybody play a twelve-string the way he does-Leo Kottke. Will be watching and posting more later...

goldenponderbob · 11-24-2006, 10:22 AM

I suppose you're familliar with Guy Clark, another wordsmith musician from
down your way. When a person feels compelled to write an ode to "Home
Grown Tomatoes" it cannot be for the purpose of making money, it springs
from a need to communicate through art, and that's the best definition
of "folk' I could ever imagine.

And, if Texas musicians who left too soon are discussed, I have to add a
mention of Buddy Holley, for whom my reverence knows no bounds.

Buddy's name won't be listed in any folk music hall of fame, but their
were "folk" that made his music-their music, and that's the folk process
at work

I find it absolutely amazing that just two days before he died, a kid
named Robert Zimmerman trekked from his home town in Hibbing to
see him perform in Minneapolis.

All for now, more later,

goldenponderbob

Vietvet · 11-25-2006, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by goldenponderbob

I suppose you're familliar with Guy Clark, another wordsmith musician from
down your way. When a person feels compelled to write an ode to "Home
Grown Tomatoes" it cannot be for the purpose of making money, it springs
from a need to communicate through art, and that's the best definition
of "folk' I could ever imagine.

And, if Texas musicians who left too soon are discussed, I have to add a
mention of Buddy Holley, for whom my reverence knows no bounds.

Buddy's name won't be listed in any folk music hall of fame, but their
were "folk" that made his music-their music, and that's the folk process
at work

I find it absolutely amazing that just two days before he died, a kid
named Robert Zimmerman trekked from his home town in Hibbing to
see him perform in Minneapolis.

All for now, more later,

goldenponderbob

Ah yes, Guy Clark, one of the great "unknown" songwriters in Texas. He's written a lot of songs that have also been recorded by Jerry Jeff Walker, like "L.A. Freeway", and "Coat From The Cold." Speaking of Jerry Jeff, he's almost as much of a Texas icon as Willie is. He moved to Texas from New York a long time ago, and he still plays to sold out crowds. I've got tickets for Gruene Hall in New Braunfels for December 15th, when JJW will once again perform, for probably about the thousandth time or so..

This time I'm taking my daughter and son-in-law along, to show them what REAL music is all about. Of course, it's gonna be a LONG way from Rob Zombie, but we'll see how it goes.

"Mr. Bojangles", as you may know is Walker's signature song. BTW, his son Django is developing quite a following of his own.

Buddy Holly is of course one of the giants, even though he played "rock n roll", in some respects, a lot of what he did was pretty "folkie" as well. He's from Lubbock, a mid-sized town in the panhandle that spawned the likes of Waylon Jennings, Joe Ely, Butch Hancock and Jimmie Dale Gilmore. Guess it sounds like I'm bragging, but you can hear a lot of great music, from folk to country to blues to rock and roll, and never leave the lone star state.

All for now, will be watching and posting more later.