The Return of Hillarycare

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why do people continue to say idiotic things like 'we're the only 1st world country that does this or that' as if we should conform like the rest of the 1st world countries? We're the only 1st world country that does and has a lot of things, many things you and I like. That's the worst comparison ever made.

I'm saying it simply as a comparison to what our 'peers' are doing. Just because you're the only one who doesn't do something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. But it certainly is cause for concern. And regardless of the merits of universal health care, pointing out that everyone else does it speaks to the likelihood that we'll eventually do it ourselves.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Good post, and you know why it wasn't brought up before elections because the huge majority of american people disagree with a socialist style agenda.

Yes, if they started talking like this before elections they would not have won all of those close races. To say they're doing this because they won and it's what the people wanted is crap. They're monopolizing on their win and they purposely omitted their socialist desires to get that win. They have deceived the American public.

Not that the Republicans are any better. But, this is annoying. I supported the Dems because I didn't think they could do any worse than the Republicans. Apparently I was wrong.

[hsmith]

we can't even fund medicare or social security

so lets add health care for all!

[DosEquis]

The biggest problem imho is when someone saves their entire lives for retirement, only to become sick and lose their entire savings within 2-3 years. Then they are fucked.

So if we get rid of things like medicare, medicaid, and social security what happens? A guy who worked his entire life and did an excellent job saving his money in attempt to have a secure retirment is now bankrupt in to shitty condition to work. People like them do not deserve to be out in the street because their 40+ years of working has contributed to why this country is where it is today. At least with medicare/medicaid and the $1200 ss check coming in they could afford to eat and a basic apartment, at least in NE.

That is a huge issue in my book and should not be allowed to happen. Nobody should have to choose between death from no medical treatment, or the poor house.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm saying it simply as a comparison to what our 'peers' are doing. Just because you're the only one who doesn't do something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. But it certainly is cause for concern. And regardless of the merits of universal health care, pointing out that everyone else does it speaks to the likelihood that we'll eventually do it ourselves.

So what about all the additional freedoms we have? Is that cause for concern?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So what about all the additional freedoms we have? Is that cause for concern?

this is silly. it's a matter of common sense. if i say that we're the only country that has free speech, obviously that's not cause for concern. if i say that we're the only country that hasn't outlawed slavery, that's obviously cause for concern. if we're the only country left that hasn't done something that is debatable, then yes, of course that's cause for concern.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

this is silly. it's a matter of common sense. if i say that we're the only country that has free speech, obviously that's not cause for concern. if i say that we're the only country that hasn't outlawed slavery, that's obviously cause for concern. if we're the only country left that hasn't done something that is debatable, then yes, of course that's cause for concern.

Even though the vast majority of medical breakthroughs happen in the US? We should halt forward progress and require every pay into a health system that if history is any guide will wind up subpar? A health system where innovation will almost stop dead in its tracks?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Even though the vast majority of medical breakthroughs happen in the US? We should halt forward progress and require every pay into a health system that if history is any guide will wind up subpar? A health system where innovation will almost stop dead in its tracks?

Do you have anything to substantiate the above?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Do you have anything to substantiate the above?

Look at the number of innovations and the % of innovations that come from the US vs the rest of the world. The US is responsible for 80% of the innovations in the medical field followed by the UK.

[6SpeedTA95]

Poor U.S. Scores in Health Care Don’t Measure Nobels and Innovation - New York Times

edit: and thats from the NY times.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm saying it simply as a comparison to what our 'peers' are doing. Just because you're the only one who doesn't do something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. But it certainly is cause for concern. And regardless of the merits of universal health care, pointing out that everyone else does it speaks to the likelihood that we'll eventually do it ourselves.

As the world's superpower, we have no peers.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by hsmith

we can't even fund medicare or social security

so lets add health care for all!

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Poor U.S. Scores in Health Care Don’t Measure Nobels and Innovation - New York Times

edit: and thats from the NY times.

Interesting article. However, isn't it arguable that we're the leader in innovation because we're the richest country in the world? Because we're so rich, we draw in the best talent, have the most money to invest, etc.

So if that's the case, then we need to guard our economy if we want to guard our medical innovation. Then the real question becomes whether universal health care will be better or worse for the economy as a whole, no? And if turns out that universal health care is better for our economy, then America's previous leading spot as innovator won't be in danger.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

As the world's superpower, we have no peers.

Okay, well, if your sole measuring stick is going to be GDP,
then you might well be taking advice from China in the future.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, well, if your sole measuring stick is going to be GDP,
then you might well be taking advice from China in the future.

Hmm...I guess it's obvious that's not my sole measuring stick?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Hmm...I guess it's obvious that's not my sole measuring stick?

You said we have no peers because we're the world's only superpower. Isn't superpower status pretty much a question of GDP? (there's also military power, but that's usually a function of GDP)

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Interesting article. However, isn't it arguable that we're the leader in innovation because we're the richest country in the world? Because we're so rich, we draw in the best talent, have the most money to invest, etc.

So if that's the case, then we need to guard our economy if we want to guard our medical innovation. Then the real question becomes whether universal health care will be better or worse for the economy as a whole, no? And if turns out that universal health care is better for our economy, then America's previous leading spot as innovator won't be in danger.

Did you read the article? Our free market system attracts the best researching in the world. Why? INCENTIVES! I dont care where your from the R&D and innovation is taking place here, providing american jobs, takin gplace with american dollars. You take away those dollars you take away incentive and innovation.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Isn't superpower status pretty much a question of GDP?

No.

[hsmith]

please explain how we are to pay for this "free healthcare for all" when we can't even pay for social security or medicare

kthx

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by hsmith

please explain how we are to pay for this "free healthcare for all" when we can't even pay for social security or medicare

kthx

50% taxes might do it.