The Return of Hillarycare - Page 5

kinggovernor · 11-16-2006, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

50% taxes might do it.

or more

RMNIXON · 11-16-2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

please explain how we are to pay for this "free healthcare for all" when we can't even pay for social security or medicare

kthx

The whole point is to get somebody else to pay for YOUR heathcare!

But that is not the only thing that worries me. The Unions are behind Universal Heathcare! The huge Nurses Union in California has been at it for years. Why? Because government jobs are the only sector where Unions are growing. They can't wait to get there sticky fingers into heathcare. Then trying to get to your doctor will be like going to the DMV. An army of losers and fuckups with little or no medical training who can't hardy ever be fired will control your heathcare!

ballz2wallz · 11-16-2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Then trying to get to your doctor will be like going to the DMV. An army of losers and fuckups with little or no medical training who can't hardy ever be fired will control your heathcare!

Oh geez, I never even thought of that. That IS scary.

Vietvet · 11-17-2006, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by hsmith

we can't even fund medicare or social security

so lets add health care for all!

Sure we can fund those things. Just as soon as we stop throwing money down the Rathole called Iraq and stop giving a free tax ride to oil comany execs and other pigs at the trough. Wonder why it is that nobody complains about their tax $$ going to a war that 2/3rds of this country doesn't support, yet when it comes to the common good for the people of our country, all of a sudden we can't afford anything. BULLSHIT.

Vietvet · 11-17-2006, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The whole point is to get somebody else to pay for YOUR heathcare!

But that is not the only thing that worries me. The Unions are behind Universal Heathcare! The huge Nurses Union in California has been at it for years. Why? Because government jobs are the only sector where Unions are growing. They can't wait to get there sticky fingers into heathcare. Then trying to get to your doctor will be like going to the DMV. An army of losers and fuckups with little or no medical training who can't hardy ever be fired will control your heathcare!

If you had bothered to read any of the posts explaining the fact that insurance companies are the ones running the health care program that has been advocated by both Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, you would know better than to suggest that health care reform involves government medical personell. I go to a private clinic that has nothing to do with the government, and that's exactly the kind of system that is being put out there for debate.Of course, if you think the status quo is fine, go ahead and ignore the problem, just as Bushco has been doing all these years.

Your comments about "losers and fuckups" is both laughable and offensive;laughable because Bush and his crew of idots, morons and yes, LOSERS and FUCKUPS is the main reason we are stuck in a world of shit called the Iraq war. Too bad we can't fire THEM. It's offensive because I visit vets in the local VA hospital all the time, and my wife happens to work as an RN there. They do a great job at that facility, especially when you consider the lack of funding, due to budget cuts by these clueless bastards who are now in charge of running this country. Instead of trashing federal employees, maybe you should look at "management", ie Bush/Cheney. I'm sure you won't, because you're obviously an anti-union koolaide drinker.

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

Sure we can fund those things. Just as soon as we stop throwing money down the Rathole called Iraq and stop giving a free tax ride to oil comany execs and other pigs at the trough. Wonder why it is that nobody complains about their tax $$ going to a war that 2/3rds of this country doesn't support, yet when it comes to the common good for the people of our country, all of a sudden we can't afford anything. BULLSHIT.

Iraq is a drop in the proverbial bucket that healthcare would be.

kinggovernor · 11-17-2006, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

If you had bothered to read any of the posts explaining the fact that insurance companies are the ones running the health care program that has been advocated by both Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, you would know better than to suggest that health care reform involves government medical personell. I go to a private clinic that has nothing to do with the government, and that's exactly the kind of system that is being put out there for debate.Of course, if you think the status quo is fine, go ahead and ignore the problem, just as Bushco has been doing all these years.

Your comments about "losers and fuckups" is both laughable and offensive;laughable because Bush and his crew of idots, morons and yes, LOSERS and FUCKUPS is the main reason we are stuck in a world of shit called the Iraq war. Too bad we can't fire THEM. It's offensive because I visit vets in the local VA hospital all the time, and my wife happens to work as an RN there. They do a great job at that facility, especially when you consider the lack of funding, due to budget cuts by these clueless bastards who are now in charge of running this country. Instead of trashing federal employees, maybe you should look at "management", ie Bush/Cheney. I'm sure you won't, because you're obviously an anti-union koolaide drinker.

you really think the VA is a good healthcare system, have you ever used it?

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

you really think the VA is a good healthcare system, have you ever used it?

I can see the commercial now;

'The VA, a leader in quality universal healthcare'

At that point in the commercial I start

Vietvet · 11-17-2006, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

you really think the VA is a good healthcare system, have you ever used it?

No, I don't go to the VA because I have health insurance. A lot of vets who are coming back from Iraq as well as a lot of vets from Vietnam and Korea aren't as fortunate. The VA is understaffed and underequipped, but blaming employees for the total neglect of this sorry-assed Bush administration is like blaming Katrina on the people of New Orleans.This is what Bushco REALLY thinks of our veterans. When Clinton was in office, the VA system was actually funded properly. Go figure.

At any rate, my original point was that health care reform has absolutely NOTHING to do with federalizing hospitals and clinics. That is total bullshit, and anyone who claims this is going to happen is either a fool, or is intentionally trying to mislead. Federalizing all hospitals and clinics has never even been discussed by Democrats. That's a typical example of right wing crap that has no basis in truth. Then again, the right has never let the facts get in the way of the spin.

Vietvet · 11-17-2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I can see the commercial now;

'The VA, a leader in quality universal healthcare'

At that point in the commercial I start

And it's a safe bet that you don't give a SHIT about veterans who are forced to use a system that is underfunded and understaffed. "Let 'em eat cake", right? That's what passes for "support our troops."

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

And it's a safe bet that you don't give a SHIT about veterans who are forced to use a system that is underfunded and understaffed. "Let 'em eat cake", right? That's what passes for "support our troops."

My family is full of veterans; of course I care about them...but what am I to do about the VA?

Let me get this straight; first I'm wrong for not supporting universal healthcare for all, but now that we point out how the one universal healthcare system already in place sucks, I'm wrong for not wanting to change that.

So are you for it or not? Do you want everyone to have the healthcare that the VA is, or do you want to get rid of the VA? I'm sure the private industry could do it better.

hsmith · 11-17-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

No, I don't go to the VA because I have health insurance. A lot of vets who are coming back from Iraq as well as a lot of vets from Vietnam and Korea aren't as fortunate. The VA is understaffed and underequipped, but blaming employees for the total neglect of this sorry-assed Bush administration is like blaming Katrina on the people of New Orleans.This is what Bushco REALLY thinks of our veterans. When Clinton was in office, the VA system was actually funded properly. Go figure.

At any rate, my original point was that health care reform has absolutely NOTHING to do with federalizing hospitals and clinics. That is total bullshit, and anyone who claims this is going to happen is either a fool, or is intentionally trying to mislead. Federalizing all hospitals and clinics has never even been discussed by Democrats. That's a typical example of right wing crap that has no basis in truth. Then again, the right has never let the facts get in the way of the spin.

so you just point out failures of gov't run health care for a small number of people, yet you want the gov't to run everyones health care

6SpeedTA95 · 11-17-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

Sure we can fund those things. Just as soon as we stop throwing money down the Rathole called Iraq and stop giving a free tax ride to oil comany execs and other pigs at the trough. Wonder why it is that nobody complains about their tax $$ going to a war that 2/3rds of this country doesn't support, yet when it comes to the common good for the people of our country, all of a sudden we can't afford anything. BULLSHIT.

1) Iraq is costing about 90 billion a year, healthcare will cost us ten times that.
2) We're not giving a free tax ride to the oil companies how about looking up their income statements. In total taxes last year Exxon paid more than 100 billion dollars and about 40 BILLION to the US in taxes/fees etc.

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by hsmith

so you just point out failures of gov't run health care for a small number of people, yet you want the gov't to run everyones health care

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-17-2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Did you read the article? Our free market system attracts the best researching in the world. Why? INCENTIVES! I dont care where your from the R&D and innovation is taking place here, providing american jobs, takin gplace with american dollars. You take away those dollars you take away incentive and innovation.

Why? If we have universal health care in the richest country in the wold, how will that remove incentive to build the next generation of mammography machine? People will no longer want or be able to pay for mammographies? And since universal health care would provide access to tens of millions of people who previously couldn't afford it, wouldn't that make the market for health care technology even larger, providing even more incentive?

6SpeedTA95 · 11-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Why? If we have universal health care in the richest country in the wold, how will that remove incentive to build the next generation of mammography machine? People will no longer want or be able to pay for mammographies? And since universal health care would provide access to tens of millions of people who previously couldn't afford it, wouldn't that make the market for health care technology even larger, providing even more incentive?

Because there's no payoff for taking the risk. The article does a pretty good job explaining.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-17-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Because there's no payoff for taking the risk. The article does a pretty good job explaining.

As far as I can see, the article does not explain how universal health care would lead to incentives for innovation disappearing. The article simply explains how incentives have caused us to be the leader in medicine, and shows how Europe doesn't have those same incentives. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that because Europeans have universal health care, and they don't have incentives, that therefore if we had universal health care we also wouldn't have incentives.

Can you point to where in the article it explains why universal health care would erase incentives in the USA?

R-Type · 11-17-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The whole point is to get somebody else to pay for YOUR heathcare!

But that is not the only thing that worries me. The Unions are behind Universal Heathcare! The huge Nurses Union in California has been at it for years. Why? Because government jobs are the only sector where Unions are growing. They can't wait to get there sticky fingers into heathcare. Then trying to get to your doctor will be like going to the DMV. An army of losers and fuckups with little or no medical training who can't hardy ever be fired will control your heathcare!

I fail to see how this is any worse than letting an insurance company with a PROFIT MOTIVE to NOT authorize care, is allowed to dictate your care options to your doctor. Either way, it's a bad deal. how about letting a non taxable, non profit organziation of some kind control the money pool instead? The logical choice for this is government, but I also realize it could/would be abused by corrupt politics.

6SpeedTA95 · 11-17-2006, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by R-Type

I fail to see how this is any worse than letting an insurance company with a PROFIT MOTIVE to NOT authorize care, is allowed to dictate your care options to your doctor. Either way, it's a bad deal. how about letting a non taxable, non profit organziation of some kind control the money pool instead? The logical choice for this is government, but I also realize it could/would be abused by corrupt politics.

Welcome back bro! Where ya been?

kinggovernor · 11-17-2006, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

No, I don't go to the VA because I have health insurance. A lot of vets who are coming back from Iraq as well as a lot of vets from Vietnam and Korea aren't as fortunate. The VA is understaffed and underequipped, but blaming employees for the total neglect of this sorry-assed Bush administration is like blaming Katrina on the people of New Orleans.This is what Bushco REALLY thinks of our veterans. When Clinton was in office, the VA system was actually funded properly. Go figure.

At any rate, my original point was that health care reform has absolutely NOTHING to do with federalizing hospitals and clinics. That is total bullshit, and anyone who claims this is going to happen is either a fool, or is intentionally trying to mislead. Federalizing all hospitals and clinics has never even been discussed by Democrats. That's a typical example of right wing crap that has no basis in truth. Then again, the right has never let the facts get in the way of the spin.

the VA sucked when Clinton was in off