The Return of Hillarycare

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 02:29 PM

Well, it seems the return of Hillarycare is on the horizon. As the AP reports:

She also said Democrats would focus on improving the quality and affordability of health care _ a touchy matter for the former first lady, who in 1993 led her husband's calamitous attempt to overhaul the nation's health care system. The failure of that effort helped Republicans win control of both the Senate and House the following year.

"Health care is coming back," Clinton warned, adding, "It may be a bad dream for some."

This could be a good thing for Republicans, considering the last attempt to implement such a system ended up bringing a gain of 53 seats in the House and 7 in the Senate the following midterm elections.

She blamed it's failure to pass on her inexperience as a politician, among other things.

Who's this really a bad dream for?

11-13-2006, 02:33 PM

Ohhhh great, here we go...

Problem is it just might pass this time

kinggovernor · 11-13-2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Ohhhh great, here we go...

Problem is it just might pass this time

no it won't, there is just enough rugged individualism left in this country to oppose this

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 04:23 PM

If you guys think the Democrats lost 53 seats because Clinton wanted to reform healthcare...I don't even know what to say to that

I guess the 2006 election had Democrats pick up those seats because of the USAToday story on wiretapping

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

If you guys think the Democrats lost 53 seats because Clinton wanted to reform healthcare...I don't even know what to say to that

There are a lot more than just 'us guys' that think that it helped

In 1993 the President appointed his wife to head the Task Force on National Health Care Reform. The recommendation of this task force, commonly called the Clinton health care plan and nicknamed "Hillarycare" by its opponents, failed to gain enough support to come to a floor vote in either house of Congress, although both had Democratic majorities, and was abandoned in September, 1994. In her Living History memoirs, Clinton acknowledged that her political inexperience contributed to the defeat, but also said that many other factors were responsible as well. A decade later, "Hillarycare" would still be used as a label, sometimes pejoratively, for plans perceived as implementing universal health care.[18] At the time, Republicans used its unpopularity as a campaign issue in the 1994 midterm elections which saw a net Republican gain of 53 seats in the House election and 7 in the Senate election.

11-13-2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no it won't, there is just enough rugged individualism left in this country to oppose this

Ohhh I dunno, I hope you're right, I think the senate might can the idea, but if a dem gets elected in 08 and they gain more seats in the houses of congress we could very easily find ourselves up shit creek without a paddle

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

There are a lot more than just 'us guys' that think that it helped

wow, wikipedia, im convinced

and also, they say its a "factor" well im sure there were 100 factors in that election, just like there were in this one...to try and say its going to be some decisive issue is just crossing your fingers at every turn

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Ohhh I dunno, I hope you're right, I think the senate might can the idea, but if a dem gets elected in 08 and they gain more seats in the houses of congress we could very easily find ourselves up shit creek without a paddle

2004 and 2006 were awful battleground years for Democrats, 2008 and 2010...if things go well they can very easily get 60 senate seats and a filibuster proof majority...infact if 2008 is a big dem year they could get have it in 2008

kinggovernor · 11-13-2006, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

wow, wikipedia, im convinced

and also, they say its a "factor" well im sure there were 100 factors in that election, just like there were in this one...to try and say its going to be some decisive issue is just crossing your fingers at every turn

what would you say was the most important reason why republicans picked up the majority?

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

what would you say was the most important reason why republicans picked up the majority?

People hadn't seen a Republican majority control Congress in 40 years, and they were sick of how DC was running, while I still believe many of them hadn't heard of the "contract with America" I believe many people wanted to "throw the bums out" regardless, in the hope of a better future than how 1993 looked

Runners up include the assault weapons ban, the NRA turning out its base

"dont ask dont tell" and other moves towards a country where homosexuals had equal rights and other religious issues fired up the religious right

also, the southern reallignment, where the solid south flipped completely from Republican to Democrat, thats almost the #1, its close

"Hillarycare" is like reason #938439

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 06:27 PM

Fortunately almost all of the big issues were either one shot or rely on the Democrats to screw up again to work

If the GOP tried "contract with American II" in 2008 or 2010, everyone would laugh because they saw what they did the first time around

the south is already changed, Dems only picked up 2 seats in the south, and one of them was a democratic district

the Democrats will stay away from the gun issue, and other GOP wedge issues

the question becomes, will the country have a big anti-Dem wave over raising taxes on those making over 200,000 a year, and granting universal healthcare in 2009?

My answer is officially "haha no"

RMNIXON · 11-13-2006, 06:28 PM

I remember when Bill Clinton got up before the congress and waved that Universal Hearthcare card that he would give to all Americans and knowbody could take it away. Then we found out who would pay for it and how restrictive it was. Rationed government assigned heathcare. The dirt was in all the details. If she blamed that failure on "inexperiance" then she still ain't got it!

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

wow, wikipedia, im convinced

and also, they say its a "factor" well im sure there were 100 factors in that election, just like there were in this one...to try and say its going to be some decisive issue is just crossing your fingers at every turn

I don't know why you act like I said it was the sole factor; I didn't

ballz2wallz · 11-13-2006, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I remember when Bill Clinton got up before the congress and waved that Universal Hearthcare card that he would give to all Americans and knowbody could take it away. Then we found out who would pay for it and how restrictive it was. Rationed government assigned heathcare. The dirt was in all the details. If she blamed that failure on "inexperiance" then she still ain't got it!

kinggovernor · 11-13-2006, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

the question becomes, will the country have a big anti-Dem wave over raising taxes on those making over 200,000 a year, and granting universal healthcare in 2009?

My answer is officially "haha no"

so you think you are going to have to wait till 2009, that is assuming things way to far in advance. People don't want healthcare that is worse than what they have now.

RMNIXON · 11-13-2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

If the GOP tried "contract with American II" in 2008 or 2010, everyone would laugh because they saw what they did the first time around

Yeah, like hold the congress for 12 years!

They don't need a II. They need to renew a pledge to the first. They will do just fine.

RMNIXON · 11-13-2006, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

what would you say was the most important reason why republicans picked up the majority?

The media and the left quickly forgot how Clinton got elected. He had rather moderate positions and a no new tax pledge. Then his very "Liberal" wife and staff got a grip on him and he went far left on any number of issues. Before 1994 for example his whitehouse was arguing how debt was a good thing as long as government spending had the interpretation of creating economic growth. Clinton lowest poll numbers were between 1993 and 1995! Not at the time of Monica!

RMNIXON · 11-13-2006, 06:44 PM

As for the most importand reason, it was to gain some conservative influence with whitehouse. To his credit he did sign Welfare Reform. So It worked!

Thorgrim · 11-13-2006, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Yeah, like hold the congress for 12 years!

They don't need a II. They need to renew a pledge to the first. They will do just fine.

god, would i love that

2010 midterm campaign "we're going to renew the contract with america!"

please, run on that, i BEG YOU

RMNIXON · 11-13-2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

god, would i love that

2010 midterm campaign "we're going to renew the contract with america!"

please, run on that, i BEG YOU

Real Nasty Stuff:

FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress;
SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;
THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;
FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs;
FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;
SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public;
SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;
EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting.

Republican Contract with America

There is plenty there Republicans can run on. Just let you guys have power for a couple years and we shall see. Bush bash won't hold much water in 2008. We will run on the principles. Not your distortions of those principles. It is bad enough that after bashing the term "family values" for years your party can't open it's mouth without the phony "Working families" bit. Like all those Millions of Republican voters don't pay taxes and work for a living!