Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai Why is this important? And define "official business". Does "official business" in this context mean the ongoing operations of a PRIVATE BUSINESS or does it mean the inner workings of government? Specifically government....
11-14-2006, 07:01 PM
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| "He does own the building."  Moderate 
| Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai Specifically government. 
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11-14-2006, 07:03 PM
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| "He does own the building." Moderate
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There is not quantification or logical justification for that statement or any statement that says that ALL or even MOST or even a SIGNIFICANT number of those against ILLEGAL immigration are racist. | ||||
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11-14-2006, 07:06 PM
| #23 | ||||
| Banned  Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Phantom I'm against illegal immigration. That includes illegal european immigrants, but that's because I hate white people.
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11-14-2006, 07:06 PM
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| "He does own the building." Moderate
| Originally Posted by Kytro
Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Racist.
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11-14-2006, 09:12 PM
| #25 | ||||
| Baka  Idealist Adelaide, Australia
| Originally Posted by Thomas Crown
Did you read what I said? I was saying that racists (A) are probably against illegal immigration (tends to B), but being against illegal immigration does not make you racist (B does not imply A). | ||||
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11-16-2006, 10:52 AM
| #26 | ||||
| "He does own the building." Moderate
| Originally Posted by Kytro Fine, but the term racist should have no bearing in this argument since this affects people of every race on the planet.
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11-16-2006, 11:04 AM
| #27 | ||||
| Perpetual Noob Independent
| Originally Posted by Thomas Crown So, if Congress tomorrow declared each and every illegal immigrant legal, you would look at them no differently from anyone else, right?
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11-16-2006, 12:08 PM
| #28 | ||||
| "He does own the building." Moderate
| Originally Posted by Phantom If that declaration also involved the registration of those individuals allowing for taxation as well as criminal background checks for the ejection of violent criminals and pedophiles, yes.
I would still hold issue with those who choose to not assimilate to the society. | ||||
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11-16-2006, 11:52 PM
| #29 | ||||
| Baka Idealist Adelaide, Australia
| Originally Posted by Thomas Crown Every race has it's racists?
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11-17-2006, 11:22 AM
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| "He does own the building." Moderate
| Originally Posted by Kytro Yes, they do. But this isn't a RACE issue. Immigration =/= Race.
People are so desperate to call people racists these days it is insane. I think the welfare system is fucked. Im a racist. I think illegal immigration is wrong. Im a racist. I think people of ANY color should take responsibility for their own actions. Im racist. I think affirmative action and welfare and entitlements are crutches and only hurt people and breed weaker populus. Im racist. Not a single one of those view points makes me a racist. | ||||
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11-18-2006, 05:25 PM
| #31 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| No, they don't. But, there are some people who hold the position about immigration they do simply because they feel like the country is being 'invaded' by Hispanics, they are worried about becoming a minority race in this country, and really don't seem to care much about other immigration / border problems, like the border with Canada, etc.. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 02:00 AM
| #32 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by Phantom I would look at them like people who just got a free pass for breaking what I believe is a fundamental law of coming into my home country, who basically got to pass GO and Collect $200. And then I'd wonder if I get my first law breaking free since I am a native citizen.
__________________ I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center. - Kurt Vonnegut | ||||
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11-19-2006, 02:27 AM
| #33 | ||||
| For those about to rock...  libertarian Atlanta, GA
| I think some people in this thread are confused as to what the issues on immigration are. I'll admit, some people want strong anti-immigration laws because they don't want mexicans here, which is racist. However, some people just want the law obeyed (ballz's post represented this). It doesn't matter to them what the law is, it is a law for a reason and if people are going to break it, then they should be punished and further actions should be taken to prevent people from breaking that law (eg. fence between mexico and US) Others think the current immigration standards are too stringant and promote illegal imimgration. They think immigration standards should be loosened which would, in turn, cause no illegal immigrants because those people could freely and LEGALLY immigrate to this country (I am of this mind-set). And others still think that the illegal immigrants have some sort of right to be here. I don't fully understand this mindset, but they seem to be the ones screaming loudest for amnesty. These are the four main views I have seen on this issue. As far as I can tell, the legitimate racists are a minority, so the word is just being thrown around by people with opposing views to discredit the others. Though, accusing a racist of racism is still A-OK in my book  | ||||
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11-19-2006, 10:42 AM
| #34 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| The problem is that many of these people who claim to want to be about "enforcing the law" don't care about many of the other laws we have on the books when it comes to other issues... illegal wiretapping, torture, habeus corpus, etc.. as well as not really caring about the fact that our borders are wide open elsewhere So, that begs the question of what's the real motive for wanting (so feverishly) this law enforced? I agree real racists are probably in the minority, but that doesn't mean that a certain level of racism isn't present in the viewpoint of a large portion of people. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 11:08 AM
| #35 | ||||
| For those about to rock... libertarian Atlanta, GA
| Perhaps you're right, but it seems to me that it's more likely that those people care about that law because it protects us from foreign invaders. Maybe that's a fifth type of people. The ones that are just against all foreigners or people they see against the US in some way. I guess that's an extension of the 9/11 mentality. I think that can be racist, but it can also just be REALLY protectionist. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 11:10 AM
| #36 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| I agree that's a type of racism. Protectionist maybe, but seems to me those would be the ones pushing for further isolationist policies in all areas, not just with the Mexican border. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 02:08 PM
| #37 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by motivez
I am also against the illegal wiretapping, and all the other shitty things this and previous administration has put in place that dessimates our rights. Personally about the immigration issue, I've seen what millions of illegal immigrants can do to an American community, and region. And if Kansas looked like East LA, then more Americans would be feverishly against illegal immigration. Because it turns communities into SHIT, and they turn it into Mexico, and it gets so bad that there is little to do to get it back. They leave Mexico and come here for our money, and then when they live here, they turn the communities they live in into ethnocentric centers resembling Tijuana. They are isolationists of their own culture, they are not here to become Americans, or to be Americanized. They are here to make money to send back home. They make money, and they take our tax money. We are getting ass raped with this deal. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 03:00 PM
| #38 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| I'm not saying I disagree, or that you're one of the people I'm talking about though. I feel the same way about illegal immigration you do, I think. I think we have a very large and compelling interest in making sure that people cannot walk across the border without us knowing who it is.. and that goes for Canada and the ports too. We need to know who is in our country, and we need to know who is entering the country. I agree with the culture thing to an extent. I don't think first (and sometimes second) generation immigrants ever fully integrate with a society.. I think it's their children and children's children that make the leap. And, LA, well, I mean.. low class people are low class regardless of race or where they come from I think. You can find slums and "bad areas" all over, and it's not always because of illegal immigration.. but I don't know really enough about LA to make a judgment about that. | ||||
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11-19-2006, 03:38 PM
| #39 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by motivez
No question, there are slums everywhere. But a TJ slum is a whole different ball game than an American one.  | ||||
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11-20-2006, 08:52 AM
| #40 | ||||
| Perpetual Noob Independent
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland This argument reminds me of the arguments white neighborhoods put forth in their efforts to prevent black persons from moving in to their neighborhoods.
"The neighborhood falls apart when they come" "They don't live like us" "They don't integrate with us" "They commit crime and bring other criminals to the neighborhood" etc. Just a thought. | ||||
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