Anti-Illegal Immigration Quandary.

[Thomas Crown]

Why is it those who are anti-illegal immigration are painted as racists? How is that even SOMEWHAT applicable?

Is the fact that I want immigrants to come in to this country LEGALLY some how make me a racist and I didn't know it?

Farmers Branch, Texas just passed some laws yesterday that do things that seem like common sense to me.

First, it made English the official language. This doesn't mean you can't SPEAK Spanish, Vietnamese or Russian. It simply means that all official business is to be done in English.

Second, it made doing business with illegal immigrants a crime. This, again, seems like common sense. If you steal something, and I buy it from you knowing you stole it, I am commiting a crime. The fact that a law had to be passed to make knowingly doing business with those breaking the law a crime is absurd to me.

Third, it made it legal to find out whether someone who has been arrested is in the country legally. This again seems like common sense. If they are here illegally and don't have any ID, how can you know who they are unless you find out? Before this, it would have been illegal to find out if they were in fact breaking the law. How retarded is that?

These laws aren't racist laws. They aren't even laws against hispanics. They are laws against those who enter this country illegally. Simple as that. Immigrants are welcome, just come in legally. That is not too much to ask.

[Phantom]

I believe most who are anti-illegal immigration are racists. The "law" is a pretext for those persons who really don't want the immigrants around them or in the country at all.

I think this comes to light when we speak of amnesty for illegal immigrants.

To understand this, you need at least a tiny background in immigration law. First, unauthorized entry into this country without inspection is illegal, so when someone crosses the Mexican border without authorization is "breaking the law." But, once that person crosses the border, the crime is complete. Illegal presence in this country is not a crime.

So once the crime is complete, the illegal immigrants are no longer breaking the law. They have finished committing their "crime," just like you have finished your crime when you run a stop sign.

Second, Congress has plenary authority with regard to immigration. They can arbitrarily change (almost) anyone from illegal to legal status.

So, if Congress on a whim decides that all of these "illegals" should become legal, these persons would no longer be criminals and would be breaking no laws. But do you think that is going to change the attitudes of the anti-illegal immigrant groups? Not a chance, because as I said earlier, the "law" is just a pretext for bad feelings attributed to the immigrants.

[Thomas Crown]

This just shows how far out you are. You operate under the assumption that most people who oppose illegal immigration are racists. This is absurd.

And in regard to your terribly disjointed attempt at rationalizing the crime by saying it is done. Does this apply to murder? Theft? Rape?

It is arguable that your point is even MORE valid for those three than being an illegal immigrant.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

This just shows how far out you are. You operate under the assumption that most people who oppose illegal immigration are racists. This is absurd.

Attack my post, not me. I believe my conclusions are well-grounded in my facts and analysis. Can you offer anything besides a personal attack in rebuttal?

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I believe most who are anti-illegal immigration are racists. The "law" is a pretext for those persons who really don't want the immigrants around them or in the country at all.

I think this comes to light when we speak of amnesty for illegal immigrants.

To understand this, you need at least a tiny background in immigration law. First, unauthorized entry into this country without inspection is illegal, so when someone crosses the Mexican border without authorization is "breaking the law." But, once that person crosses the border, the crime is complete. Illegal presence in this country is not a crime.

So once the crime is complete, the illegal immigrants are no longer breaking the law. They have finished committing their "crime," just like you have finished your crime when you run a stop sign.

Second, Congress has plenary authority with regard to immigration. They can arbitrarily change (almost) anyone from illegal to legal status.

So, if Congress on a whim decides that all of these "illegals" should become legal, these persons would no longer be criminals and would be breaking no laws. But do you think that is going to change the attitudes of the anti-illegal immigrant groups? Not a chance, because as I said earlier, the "law" is just a pretext for bad feelings attributed to the immigrants.

This is an excellent post.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

This just shows how far out you are. You operate under the assumption that most people who oppose illegal immigration are racists. This is absurd.

And in regard to your terribly disjointed attempt at rationalizing the crime by saying it is done. Does this apply to murder? Theft? Rape?

It is arguable that your point is even MORE valid for those three than being an illegal immigrant.

Yes, it does apply to murder, theft and rape. Once the crime is committed, it's over.

[Thomas Crown]

I was attacking your post. You cannot remove your post from how far out you are.

The idea that you think you have some factual basis for every anti-illegal immigration proponent being a racist is laughable.

[Thomas Crown]

Wrong. Until brought to justice, it isn't over.

Best case scenario, an illegal immigrant, after the crime is committed, is a fugitive.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

Wrong. Until brought to justice, it isn't over.

Best case scenario, an illegal immigrant, after the crime is committed, is a fugitive.

so are you if you have ever exceeded the speed limit when driving

[Thomas Crown]

Granted. But it doesn't change anything.

[Diamond Cross]

I agree it is absurd to say those who're against illegal immigration are racist. Why? Because most people who do not support illegal immigration support legal immigration. Labeling a person a racist is a disingenious ploy to make the person look bad.

[DosEquis]

Saying all those who are against entering this country illegally are racist is absurd. While a good portion of those against it may happen to be racist, not all of them, including myself, are racist. My motivation to be "anti-illegal immigrant" is financially motivated for the most part.

Its like saying all guys are internet predators when it just happens that those who do appear on dateline are guys.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Saying all those who are against entering this country illegally are racist is absurd. While a good portion of those against it may happen to be racist, not all of them, including myself, are racist. My motivation to be "anti-illegal immigrant" is financially motivated for the most part.

Its like saying all guys are internet predators when it just happens that those who do appear on dateline are guys.

So you're anti-immigrantion in general? That's a fair position, and on better more footing than racist IMO.

[7th Ninjai]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

First, it made English the official language. This doesn't mean you can't SPEAK Spanish, Vietnamese or Russian. It simply means that all official business is to be done in English.

Why is this important? And define "official business". Does "official business" in this context mean the ongoing operations of a PRIVATE BUSINESS or does it mean the inner workings of government?

[motivez]

I think it has to do with the immigration debate being focused on a specific ethnic group at the moment.. Most of the people who are very outspoken about the illegal immigration issue claim it's for economic as well as national security purposes, however..

They don't seem to say much about our border with Canada being just as open and dangerous considering Canada's lax immigration policy.

If a lot of the anti-illegal immigration crowd saw someone here from Sweden or Germany, would they immediately say they probably are here illegally, violated their visa, etc? Probably not.

Would they care more if they were dark skinned? I think probably yes.

I know around here there's a mindset that hispanic = illegal, and I think it's mainly the tendency of those who are so outspoken about the immigration issue to look upon those certain ethnic groups with suspicion specifically because of the debate about immigration.

I don't think all or even most are racist in the same way the KKK is racist, but I do think a lot of the passion of the issue comes from the fact that they're dark skinned and seen as taking over.. look at Pat Buchanan's outcry about how hispanics going to become "the majority" in 2050 or whatever.. so what?

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Phantom

So you're anti-immigrantion in general? That's a fair position, and on better more footing than racist IMO.

No, i like immigration as long as it is done legally and regulated. What I am against is people coming here illegally because of fiscal reasons and security reasons. Sure there are some from other countries but the good majority happens to be from mexico. Granted they come here to work but they send the majority of their income, something to the tune of 25 billion dollars, to mexico to help float their corrupt country. One thing that can be proved is how much they are taking out, but are they putting 25 billion back in? Also, how about the reported 15 billion in medicare it takes per year? How about the hundreds of millions in education costs for their kids? That is just talking about the honest worker who breaks the law to get here.

Then we can talk about those who come up here to sell drugs. Mexico is our largest import of meth and one of the largest for weed. Not to mention their airport security is probably not up to par with ours. So if a terrorist wanted to go to mexico, it is probably fairly easy and then mexico has guides for their public on how to cross the border without being caught.

So it all starts with border security and removing the desire to come here. Border patrol increase and fencing high risk areas. Punishing employers for hiring illegals, etc.

It has nothing to do with hating mexicans. I have no issue with them at all. They have some hot latino women and their food is pretty damn good too. I dont understand why they paint a nature scene with jesus on the tailgate of their truck... but hey whatever.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think it has to do with the immigration debate being focused on a specific ethnic group at the moment.. Most of the people who are very outspoken about the illegal immigration issue claim it's for economic as well as national security purposes, however..

They don't seem to say much about our border with Canada being just as open and dangerous considering Canada's lax immigration policy.

If a lot of the anti-illegal immigration crowd saw someone here from Sweden or Germany, would they immediately say they probably are here illegally, violated their visa, etc? Probably not.

Would they care more if they were dark skinned? I think probably yes.

I know around here there's a mindset that hispanic = illegal, and I think it's mainly the tendency of those who are so outspoken about the immigration issue to look upon those certain ethnic groups with suspicion specifically because of the debate about immigration.

I don't think all or even most are racist in the same way the KKK is racist, but I do think a lot of the passion of the issue comes from the fact that they're dark skinned and seen as taking over.. look at Pat Buchanan's outcry about how hispanics going to become "the majority" in 2050 or whatever.. so what?

Focusing on the illegal immigrant from sweden does very little in the "war on illegal immigration".

Its like having a termite infestation in your house, but you want to kill the 6 ants on the kitchen floor. Unfortunately since the vast majority happens to be mexican, i would say 95%, we have to primarily focus on them. Sure, if we find illegal white people we should send them home too.

The only reason I am not a huge supporter of a stronger border with canada is they have better pot. Otherwise yes we should do more up there as well. Homeland security starts with the homeland.

[Kytro]

A = Racist
B = anti-illegal immigration

A tends to B, however B does not imply A.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

Why is it those who are anti-illegal immigration are painted as racists? How is that even SOMEWHAT applicable?

Is the fact that I want immigrants to come in to this country LEGALLY some how make me a racist and I didn't know it?

Because you have a rational mind that does not accept collective guilt. There is a certain political class, about 30% of the Democrats, who live and breath this stuff. The whole "Racist" brand began in California decades ago and probably other parts of the Southwest? I just love the same tired emotional PC guilt arguments work their way from state to state!


The real Racism is a small minority (very vocal) of hispanic activists and their followers who are more beholden to those jumping the fence (because of their race and Nationa origin) than they are to their American citizen neighbors!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Kytro

A = Racist
B = anti-illegal immigration

A tends to B, however B does not imply A.

Excellent! Tell the liberal intellectuals and students at Columbia that!