The American Dream

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 12:14 PM

I posted this in

, but most people here don't go there anymore.

When I was in high school, we read the Great Gatsby. Afterwards, we all had to write a 5pg essay on "The American Dream." I'm not going to post my essay (it's nonsensical ramblings of a teenager filled with angst), but the gyst of it was:

The American Dream is to sue somebody.

I still feel that way. Americans are becoming so fucking lazy. The FDA recently announced that 60% of Americans are overweight, which only furthers the stereotypical fat and lazy American. People are so politically apathetic that they get most of their information from television ads (when was the last time candidates debated?). It only stands to reason that Americans prefer self-depreciation over productivity. Everyone wants to get rich quick, and if one doesn't have a plan to do that, they want to celebrate mediocrity by skating and then relying on social security. Where the fuck did our ambition go?

That said, fuck the progressive liberals that diligently exclaim, "Everyone is equal!" and then they turn around and voraciously push Affirmative Action, welfare systems, raising taxes/minimum wage, universal health care, government grants, etc. because everyone is not equal.

American politics are such a fucking joke.

YouTube Video

Phantom · 11-14-2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

That said, fuck the progressive liberals that diligently exclaim, "Everyone is equal!" and then they turn around and voraciously push Affirmative Action, welfare systems, raising taxes/minimum wage, universal health care, government grants, etc. because everyone is not equal.

American politics are such a fucking joke.

Interesting take. I guess the counterargument is that the people are equal, but the government needs to "level the playing field."

[BTW I disagree with my counterargument, it's just there to field discussion]

11-14-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I posted this in , but most people here don't go there anymore.

When I was in high school, we read the Great Gatsby. Afterwards, we all had to write a 5pg essay on "The American Dream." I'm not going to post my essay (it's nonsensical ramblings of a teenager filled with angst), but the gyst of it was:

The American Dream is to sue somebody.

I still feel that way. Americans are becoming so fucking lazy. The FDA recently announced that 60% of Americans are overweight, which only furthers the stereotypical fat and lazy American. People are so politically apathetic that they get most of their information from television ads (when was the last time candidates debated?). It only stands to reason that Americans prefer self-depreciation over productivity. Everyone wants to get rich quick, and if one doesn't have a plan to do that, they want to celebrate mediocrity by skating and then relying on social security. Where the fuck did our ambition go?

That said, fuck the progressive liberals that diligently exclaim, "Everyone is equal!" and then they turn around and voraciously push Affirmative Action, welfare systems, raising taxes/minimum wage, universal health care, government grants, etc. because everyone is not equal.

American politics are such a fucking joke.

People are equal but dont they also need equal opportunity? NOT equal outcomes, but I'm a big believer in equal opportunity.

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

People are equal but dont they also need equal opportunity? NOT equal outcomes, but I'm a big believer in equal opportunity.

Everyone has an equal opportunity.
Everyone has the opportunity to apply for a student loan to get into college.
Everyone has the opportunity to do well in school.
Everyone has the opportunity to apply for a job.
Everyone has the opportunity to vote.
Everyone has the opportunity to change their lives.

Fuck this "equal opportunity" nonsense. It's a matter of finding the opportune moment, and these people just never create theirs. That's their fault, not mine. Irresponsibility on their part doesn't constitute an emergency on mine. I prefer to just call it all "piss poor planning."

11-14-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Everyone has an equal opportunity.
Everyone has the opportunity to apply for a student loan to get into college.
Everyone has the opportunity to do well in school.
Everyone has the opportunity to apply for a job.
Everyone has the opportunity to vote.
Everyone has the opportunity to change their lives.

Fuck this "equal opportunity" nonsense. It's a matter of finding the opportune moment, and these people just never create theirs. That's their fault, not mine. Irresponsibility on their part doesn't constitute an emergency on mine. I prefer to just call it all "piss poor planning."

You honestly believe people from inner city schools have an equal opportunity with sub par teaching establishments and significantly lower funding from the federal government?

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

You honestly believe people from inner city schools have an equal opportunity with sub par teaching establishments and significantly lower funding from the federal government?

Yes.

I came from inner city and small town schools, and I do quite well for my age.

And your argument regarding education is easily resolved by improving education, not by giving more money to poor folk so they can buy some crack .

(yeah, I'm just being an ass about the whole "buying crack" thing, but my point is that giving them money isn't beneficial to society)

11-14-2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Yes.

I came from inner city and small town schools, and I do quite well for my age.

And your argument regarding education is easily resolved by improving education, not by giving more money to poor folk so they can buy some crack .

(yeah, I'm just being an ass about the whole "buying crack" thing, but my point is that giving them money isn't beneficial to society)

Yes I agree 100%, making sure education is on an equal playing field and encouraging parents to help their children and TAKE responsiblity is the key. I'm not for throwing more money at social programs. But I do recognize that parts of our system are broken in favor of and against those the system needs to help more than any other. By not giving someone a good K-12 education they do NOT have equal opportunity to get into college, to get a better job etc. The point is that we need to improve education and that equal opportunity is vitally important and its not nonsense.

Thorgrim · 11-14-2006, 01:45 PM

It's funny, you look at studies and people report that they stay in their class (the middle class generally stay middle, upper stay uppper, etc...that levels of the lower class reaching the upper-middle class are extremely small)

Yet you come on the internet, and wow praise the Lord everyone came from the worst part of the worst ghetto in America and made a success story out of themselves...praise jesus its a miracle!

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It's funny, you look at studies and people report that they stay in their class (the middle class generally stay middle, upper stay uppper, etc...that levels of the lower class reaching the upper-middle class are extremely small)

Yet you come on the internet, and wow praise the Lord everyone came from the worst part of the worst ghetto in America and made a success story out of themselves...praise jesus its a miracle!

Are you mocking me?

Thorgrim · 11-14-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Are you mocking me?

Since you had it "so rough"

Explain to me how many times you were denied medical treatment for a mental problem, and how you are dealing with said mental problems to this day?

How many times did your father beat and sodomize you?

How many days did your sole meal consist of ketchup and bread?

How many times were you unable to study or leave your house because your father was up all night beating another family member?

How much pressure did your neighborhood friends put on you, implying the neccesatiy to join a gang?

etc etc

I don't have time to list 1000 questions, and I'm pretty positive you'd fail all of them, one by one the questions make up a small percentage, but put together they make a significant chunk of the overwhelming or sometimes impossible hardships people fact in the worst parts of our country

I wonder if you even make the basic requirement: One out of every five children brush up against malnutrition every month because of lack of food security, was that your situation as a child? Were free school lunches the only way you avoided malnutrition-related diseases?

Phantom · 11-14-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I wonder if you even make the basic requirement: One out of every five children brush up against malnutrition every month because of lack of food security, was that your situation as a child? Were free school lunches the only way you avoided malnutrition-related diseases?

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Yes I agree 100%, making sure education is on an equal playing field and encouraging parents to help their children and TAKE responsiblity is the key.

Parental encouragement is not the government's job, neither is responsibility.

Perhaps counterintuitively, America was better when the government didn't help people parent their children.

I'm not for throwing more money at social programs. But I do recognize that parts of our system are broken in favor of and against those the system needs to help more than any other. By not giving someone a good K-12 education they do NOT have equal opportunity to get into college, to get a better job etc.

I don't think that the government should fund or run education.

The point is that we need to improve education and that equal opportunity is vitally important and its not nonsense.

The complaining about equal opportunity is nonsense. Everyone has an equal opportunity to change their lives. Some just have to work harder than others.

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Since you had it "so rough"

Explain to me how many times you were denied medical treatment for a mental problem, and how you are dealing with said mental problems to this day?

Did you just say that poor people are mentally unstable?

How many times did your father beat and sodomize you?

Never.

How many days did your sole meal consist of ketchup and bread?

Never.

How many times were you unable to study or leave your house because your father was up all night beating another family member?

Never.

How much pressure did your neighborhood friends put on you, implying the neccesatiy to join a gang?

My "neighborhood friends" weren't gang members.

I don't have time to list 1000 questions, and I'm pretty positive you'd fail all of them, one by one the questions make up a small percentage, but put together they make a significant chunk of the overwhelming or sometimes impossible hardships people fact in the worst parts of our country

Judging by the questions you listed, I would say you're deeply out of touch with the poor communities in America (well, in California at least). You're suggesting that poor people suffer from domestic violence, drug abuse/addiction, mental diseases, malnutrition, etc. That sounds awefully stereotypical and judgemental. Dare I say you're just as much of a bigot as any racist?

I wonder if you even make the basic requirement: One out of every five children brush up against malnutrition every month because of lack of food security, was that your situation as a child?

Not really.

Were free school lunches the only way you avoided malnutrition-related diseases?

No.

Thorgrim · 11-14-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

ERS/USDA Briefing Room - Food Security in the United States: Conditions and Trends

Thorgrim · 11-14-2006, 02:31 PM

Philadelphia > Pasadena

Just a lil bit bigger of a city

I have seen examples of all those situations (I worked in St Francis soup kitchen for several years)

Like I said, not EVERY poor person suffers EVERY imagineable problem, but a significant chunk face problems you never even though about

yet you "grew up rough"

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-14-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It's funny, you look at studies and people report that they stay in their class (the middle class generally stay middle, upper stay uppper, etc...that levels of the lower class reaching the upper-middle class are extremely small)

Yet you come on the internet, and wow praise the Lord everyone came from the worst part of the worst ghetto in America and made a success story out of themselves...praise jesus its a miracle!

exactly

DosEquis · 11-14-2006, 02:46 PM

wow the old I DID IT SO CAN THEY SO FUCK EM argument. How original.

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

yet you "grew up rough"

You know nothing about my childhood. What would constitute as "proof" for you? Do you enjoy arrogating yourself to a position from where you can ridicule and mock people that weren't dignified the pleasure of being graced with wealth and stability? Are you actually making fun of me because of this or what? I'm a little confused here. Regardless, I find your behavior to be rather juvenile.

Dumpy Dooby · 11-14-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

wow the old I DID IT SO CAN THEY SO FUCK EM argument. How original.

Hardly.

I'm not saying "fuck them" at all. If they are perfectly capable of getting jobs and participating in society, then they should do that.

edit: I went hungry once, and that was enough motivation for me to not want to do it again. I think a lot of these people need to hit rock bottom before they'll ever be productive. I completely disagree with letting them settle for mediocrity on my dime.

11-14-2006, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Since you had it "so rough"

Explain to me how many times you were denied medical treatment for a mental problem, and how you are dealing with said mental problems to this day?

How many times did your father beat and sodomize you?

How many days did your sole meal consist of ketchup and bread?

How many times were you unable to study or leave your house because your father was up all night beating another family member?

How much pressure did your neighborhood friends put on you, implying the neccesatiy to join a gang?

etc etc

I don't have time to list 1000 questions, and I'm pretty positive you'd fail all of them, one by one the questions make up a small percentage, but put together they make a significant chunk of the overwhelming or sometimes impossible hardships people fact in the worst parts of our country

I wonder if you even make the basic requirement: One out of every five children brush up against malnutrition every month because of lack of food security, was that your situation as a child? Were free school lunches the only way you avoided malnutrition-related diseases?

There were several times right after my parents divorce that we did lack food. I can vividly remember eating bread and butter or splitting a package of ramen noodles with my brother for an entire days food. This wasn't a daily occurance but typically the last 3 to 7 days out of the month were that way. It sucks.