is palestine a country?

7960 · 07-31-2006, 01:23 PM

there's enough palestine bashing in other threads but I never got an answer to this...... is palestine actually a country?

if it is, when did it become a country?
is there any kind of constitution or governing document?

I'm serious......I searched for a bit and only found references to when it was proposed but no info on if/when it actually became a country.

thanks,

TheMrs · 07-31-2006, 01:26 PM

http://www.hejleh.com/countries/palestine.html

For starters.

Edit to add: Be sure and scroll down. A bunch of links embedded throughout the articles provided.

7960 · 07-31-2006, 01:30 PM

CIA Worldbook doesn't list palestine as a country.

What international bodies recognize it?

archangel003 · 07-31-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

CIA Worldbook doesn't list palestine as a country.

What international bodies recognize it?

All the ones that don't recognize Israel.

Dumpy Dooby · 07-31-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

All the ones that don't recognize Israel.

Yeah, pretty much.

motivez · 07-31-2006, 02:40 PM

It's pretty much a "territory", it's never has had the chance to have real and full autonomy because Israel has remained in control of so much of it. Power, border crossings, etc..

7960 · 07-31-2006, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

...it's never has had the chance to have real and full autonomy because Israel has remained in control of so much of it.

Well that's not exactly fair to say...it had the same opportunity to become a country as israel did in '48

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/fi...00/1909217.stm
http://www.mideastweb.org/misrael.htm

motivez · 07-31-2006, 03:20 PM

Well, I suppose 'never' was too broad.

I don't think you could expect them to accept having a state that isn't in control of some of their holiest sites though.

Even when Israel turns over portions of land, they still control the borders in and out of their areas, even if it's with another country and not Israel.

kinggovernor · 07-31-2006, 04:41 PM

they keep on turning down a chance for statehood

motivez · 07-31-2006, 04:51 PM

What use is that statehood if they aren't autonomous and Israel controls their borders, water supply, etc?

7960 · 07-31-2006, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

What use is that statehood if they aren't autonomous and Israel controls their borders, water supply, etc?

Palestine was offered the same thing israel was offered in '48. Why is israel a country and palestine not? If palestine became a country then they'd have control of their borders, water supply, etc, or at a minimum have more leverage to get control.

motivez · 07-31-2006, 05:16 PM

They weren't offered the "same deal" because the specific land is the problem. They might have had an issue if the land offered was reversed, but probably not as much of one.

Do you really think a little strip of land like Gaza with no way to get to the other part of your 'state' is a good solution when there is hostilities like there are?

When will they ever be able to fully control Gaza with it essentially being "inside" Israel?

It would be like the US and Osama working trying to work out a deal by giving him Oklahoma or something

kinggovernor · 07-31-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

What use is that statehood if they aren't autonomous and Israel controls their borders, water supply, etc?

they turn down autonomy

motivez · 07-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Can you show me a time when it's been offered that they would have been in control of their borders, services, etc that's been recent?

7960 · 07-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

They weren't offered the "same deal" because the specific land is the problem. They might have had an issue if the land offered was reversed, but probably not as much of one.

Map on the left..........same deal

They turned it down and went to war and lost...hence "territories siezed by israel"

kinggovernor · 07-31-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Can you show me a time when it's been offered that they would have been in control of their borders, services, etc that's been recent?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_2000_Summit

7960 · 07-31-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Can you show me a time when it's been offered that they would have been in control of their borders, services, etc that's been recent?

what's this "control of their borders"? They'll share a border with israel and one with jordan. It's not like they're going to be surrounded by jews unless something happened recently in jordan I didn't know about.

motivez · 07-31-2006, 05:55 PM

They haven't been allowed to control their borders when Israel has turned over land. Israel has been able to let them in/out as they see fit, or prevent them from doing so.

I would say being in control of ones borders is an important aspect of being an autonomous nation and being able to 'move forward'. It's easy to feel oppressed when another country can tell you whether or not you're allowed to travel.

Also, if the UN came in here and decided that Washington DC or New York (or whatever) was going to be run by an international committee, and that we'd be giving up a third of our states to a foreign entity, do you think we'd accept it?

I doubt it.

kinggovernor · 07-31-2006, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Also, if the UN came in here and decided that Washington DC or New York (or whatever) was going to be run by an international committee, and that we'd be giving up a third of our states to a foreign entity, do you think we'd accept it?

I doubt it.

that analogy doesn't work for this situation

motivez · 07-31-2006, 06:22 PM

Why not?

If the UN and the UK came in and drew some arbitrary lines and said that from now on, everything within those borders is now the property of the Native American Tribues that used to live here... would you be alright with it? Would you accept it? Would the rest of the country?

Or would we try to fight back? And if we lost and they were in control of some of our most "revered" sites, do you think we'd just sit back and accept or start a movement to violently take it back if that's all we were able to do?