Democrats Lied, Kids Died

[ballz2wallz]

YouTube Video

There's not much to really say to this; my thoughts are obvious by merely posting it.

Given the overall thougths on Iraq in the Democratic party, even preceding Bush and co. (you can't blame Bush for improperly providing the Democrats with intelligence) it's stupid to blame the Iraq war on Bush and co. alone. The Democrats thought of Iraq in the same light as the Republicans.

This is not Bush's war, this is America's war.

[6SpeedTA95]

Please add your thoughts on this.

[Nonphixion]

Democrats thought of it in the same way? That would be solely because Bush and Co. fabricated intelligence and outright lied to the Democratic Senators, Congressmen, and as well the American civilian populous.

Was he developing nuclear weapons? No. That was a fabrication by Bush and Co.
Was he developing chemical weapons? No. That was a fabrication by Bush and Co.
Was he harboring and working with Al-Qaeda? No. That was a massive fabrication, but by whom? Not the Democrats.

Bush and Co fabricated a new and false reality that suited their selfish capitalist goals for war-profiteering (with no-bid contracts from Halliburton, Blackwater, and Halliburton-subsidiary Kellog Brown and Root)

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

Democrats thought of it in the same way? That would be solely because Bush and Co. fabricated intelligence and outright lied to the Democratic Senators, Congressmen, and as well the American civilian populous.

Was he developing nuclear weapons? No. That was a lie by Bush and Co.
Was he developing chemical weapons? No. That was a lie by Bush and Co.
Was he harboring and working with Al-Qaeda? No. That was a massive lie, but by whom? Not the Democrats.

Someone didn't pay attention to the video, the dates, the president at the time, or my comments.

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Someone didn't pay attention to the video, the dates, the president at the time, or my comments.

Half of the video is 2003 and onward; when the quotes show exactly that they were subject to the Neocon "intelligence reports" produced of simply talking points, and no actual intelligence These trumped up "facts" your video shows were created by the Office Of Special Plans, a dedicated and isolated faction of the Pentagon.

This office was created by Donald H. Rumsfeld to lie about intelligence, and present false information, to fabricate a reality that we needed to invade Iraq.

The Pentagon Office Dedicated to morph Republican talking points into "Objective Intelligence" with no intermediary, oversight, or actual evidence of anything they had claimed. -- Office of Special Plans - Wikipedia

It was unlawful, this "intelligence" was a fabrication. Bush's Republican talking points were shoved in the faces of politicians as "objective facts".

This is Bush's war solely because he made a bridge of lies in order to turn 9/11 into a war in Iraq, playing on the fears of innocent American citizens.

Originally Posted by John Edwards, 2003

From your propoganda video;
Sitting on the Intelligence Committee, and seeing day after day week after week, briefings on Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. And his plans on using those weapons, he cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons, it's just that simple.

They were manipulated, it's just that simple.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Given the overall thougths on Iraq in the Democratic party, even preceding Bush and co. (you can't blame Bush for improperly providing the Democrats with intelligence) it's stupid to blame the Iraq war on Bush and co. alone. The Democrats thought of Iraq in the same light as the Republicans.

What if I include congress post 9/11 as part of bush's co, democrat and republican?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

Half of the video is 2003 and onward;

What was the other half?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

What if I include congress post 9/11 as part of bush's co, democrat and republican?

That is included in the video, and also included by most as 'Bush and co.'

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That is included in the video, and also included by most as 'Bush and co.'

computer i'm at doesn't have speakers, I will watch when i get home.

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What was the other half?

The other half was when Saddam defied sanctions that were put in place to keep him from doing anything we didn't like or approve of. Saddam didn't agree to this, he was of course a hard-nosed guy, so the Democrats were saying "We can't let him defy those sanctions, and we must take action to restore them, and ensure he doesn't act out of line"

Because after-all, we installed Saddam Huessein there in Iraq.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

The other half was when he defied sanctions that were put in place to keep him from doing anything we didn't like. Saddam didn't agree so the Democrats were saying "We can't let him defy those sanctions, and we must take action to restore them"

Hmm...it seemed the other half included pre-Bush Democrats saying Saddam had WMD and chemical weapons. Perhaps my eyes and ears deceive me, but...

[Thorgrim]

Breaking News: Republicans give up on idea of personal responsibility

Also: President gives up on American notion that "the buck stops here"

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Hmm...it seemed the other half included pre-Bush Democrats saying Saddam had WMD and chemical weapons. Perhaps my eyes and ears deceive me, but...

"Saying Saddam had WMD and chemical weapons."

You are exactly right b2w, they did say that, and they did so with confidence. Because we, The United States, sold him those WMD. Because we, The United States, sold him those chemical weapons.




"We know he has WMD!!! We have the receipts!!!"

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Breaking News: Republicans give up on idea of personal responsibility

Also: President gives up on American notion that "the buck stops here"

Unfortunately I don't know that we have had a president who believed in that principle since the man who coined it.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

"Saying Saddam had WMD and chemical weapons."

You are exactly right b2w, they did say that, and they did so with confidence. Because we, The United States, sold him those WMD. Because we, The United States, sold him those chemical weapons.
"We know he has WMD!!! We have the receipts!!!"

here is one of FDR and Stalin, does that mean the Cold War was wrong to fight ?



nixon and mao

[Thorgrim]

We didn't invade the Soviet Union or fight Communist China after Nixon's visit

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

We didn't invade the Soviet Union or fight Communist China after Nixon's visit

We didnt fight Russian forces/ russian supplied militaries ?

not yet. Real fear of China doing something stupid.

[motivez]

The Democrats did not have the same access to intelligence that the White House did.. They got the same information the rest of Congress did, nothing more and nothing less. They didn't lie, they were given bad information.

However, there's ample evidence to suggest that the intelligence was created around the desired outcome.. Downing Street Memo anyone?

[DosEquis]

I think everyone can agree that saddam was a bad man. Second I think we can all agree they were wrong about WMD.

When albright says "we have to deal with this" she/they had a different way of dealing with it. They didn't say we must invade and they didnt go to congress to go to war. They did get letters from Woflowitz, cheney, and co saying we must invade Iraq.

The similarity here is that they were all wrong about WMD, but the significant difference is bush took that faulty intelligence and invaded the country, had an extremely piss poor plan of occupying the country, an extremely piss poor concept of how much this thing would cost, and has no exit strategy. Not to mention the coalition of the willing was basically the UK or the fact we have taken on 90% of the cost and put in 90% of the soldiers.

Don't forget the debates regarding cherry picking certain intelligence reports in attempts to make their case look even stronger, and the fact they left out certain intelligence reports which would make their case for war weaker. Perhaps those reports restrained the clinton administration from taking any military action? Maybe. My guess is clinton would have went to the UN and done more with weapons inspectors and IF there was a need for military action there would have been a real "coalition of the willing".

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

The Democrats did not have the same access to intelligence that the White House did.. They got the same information the rest of Congress did, nothing more and nothing less. They didn't lie, they were given bad information.

This argument doesn't work when Clinton was president.