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Old 04-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #81
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"D" let me inject something here, from a legal pov. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but thought I would mention that before the law there really is no difference between a real threat, and a perceived threat. That's why the word "Assault" also means a perceived threat upon one's body. Its "Battery" that is the actual carrying out of that threat.

If I not only have a reasonable expectation of someone endangering me, and actually believe they will do so, I have every right to take action against the attacker. Unless someone can prove that I had no fear of bodily harm, then I am legally within my rights to take defensive action, i.e. force.

So I am assuming you are arguing the 'moral' grounds here, rather than the 'legal' grounds, correct? I'm just curious, because I originally had the impression you were indeed arguing the moral merits of the case.
 
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:23 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
"D" let me inject something here, from a legal pov. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but thought I would mention that before the law there really is no difference between a real threat, and a perceived threat. That's why the word "Assault" also means a perceived threat upon one's body. Its "Battery" that is the actual carrying out of that threat.

If I not only have a reasonable expectation of someone endangering me, and actually believe they will do so, I have every right to take action against the attacker. Unless someone can prove that I had no fear of bodily harm, then I am legally within my rights to take defensive action, i.e. force.

So I am assuming you are arguing the 'moral' grounds here, rather than the 'legal' grounds, correct? I'm just curious, because I originally had the impression you were indeed arguing the moral merits of the case.

If you are making a plea of self defense, you have to prove in some way there was a threat. It isn't just "hey, I felt threatened." Yes, it is reasonable that someone can feel threatened with someone in their house. My contention is that I wouldn't.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:44 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Donkey® View Post
If you are making a plea of self defense, you have to prove in some way there was a threat. It isn't just "hey, I felt threatened." Yes, it is reasonable that someone can feel threatened with someone in their house. My contention is that I wouldn't.
"Someone broke into my house, and I felt threatened" would likely be sufficient evidence as a jury would find that reasonable.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:44 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss View Post
"Someone broke into my house, and I felt threatened" would likely be sufficient evidence as a jury would find that reasonable.
In your opinion. I obviously don't think the same.
 
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:26 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Donkey® View Post
If you are making a plea of self defense, you have to prove in some way there was a threat. It isn't just "hey, I felt threatened." Yes, it is reasonable that someone can feel threatened with someone in their house. My contention is that I wouldn't.
But where you are making the wrong assumption is the part of "making a plea". There is no plea to be required here, because the owner has the automatic assumption of 'self-defense' by virtue of his home being invaded. Legally he is not required to justify his contention of thinking he(and his family) was threatened.

Morally, he could have used better judgment, in hind sight. And there I would go along with a goodly portion of your argument. But legally, if he didn't believe he had the time to think about the situation any more, it was he, who must live with this. Somehow I suspect he will be paying a price for this for the rest of his life. I know I would.
 
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:38 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
But where you are making the wrong assumption is the part of "making a plea". There is no plea to be required here, because the owner has the automatic assumption of 'self-defense' by virtue of his home being invaded. Legally he is not required to justify his contention of thinking he(and his family) was threatened.
That is just not correct. It varies per state/jurisdiction. And really, we are talking "what if" scenarios.
 
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #87
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Well, whatever you think on this one is fine with me. I've already got a lot on my plate, so you can go head-to-head with some others, who take issue.
 
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #88
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And speaking of intruders, perhaps this approach did a better job of not getting one shot?

 
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
And speaking of intruders, perhaps this approach did a better job of not getting one shot?



I guess most people here would be ok with shooting her too.
 
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:06 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Donkey® View Post
I guess most people here would be ok with shooting her too.
Yeah but shooting her with what?
 
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