U.S. identifies Padilla informants

Ron Burgundy · 11-17-2006, 02:20 PM

AP - A senior al-Qaida member, held for years at an undisclosed overseas CIA prison, was a key source of information that led investigators to alleged terror operative Jose Padilla, federal prosecutors disclosed.

The informant was Abu Zubaydah, who was transferred in September from the secret foreign prison to the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Court papers filed Thursday say Zubaydah's role in the Padilla investigation was recently declassified along with that of a second Guantanamo Bay detainee identified as Binyam Muhammad.

The pair provided information for a material witness warrant used to arrest Padilla in 2002 when he arrived at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport.

Padilla, a 36-year-old U.S. citizen, is scheduled for trial Jan. 22 with two others on charges they were part of a North American terrorism support cell that provided money, supplies and recruits to Muslim extremist causes around the world. They have pleaded not guilty.

Padilla was held without charges for 3 1/2 years as an enemy combatant until he was added late last year to the existing Miami terrorism support case.

The identities of Zubaydah and Muhammad were revealed for the first time by the government in the filing urging a federal judge not to throw out Padilla's statements and other evidence seized during an FBI interview just prior to his arrest.

Padilla's lawyers argue the evidence should be suppressed because, among other things, Zubaydah and Muhammad may have been tortured and Zubaydah was being treated with medication for gunshot wounds that raises questions about his reliability.

The government flatly rejects the allegations of torture.

Zubaydah identified a passport photograph of Padilla in early 2002 and told interrogators that Padilla and Muhammad had been working on a plot to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" somewhere in the United States, prosecutor Stephanie Pell wrote. U.S. officials accused Padilla of such a plot after his arrest, but it is not part of the Miami indictment.

Muhammad told investigators that he and Padilla researched the bomb plot and were trained in explosives wiring, but that al-Qaida leaders ultimately "directed Padilla to return to the United States to conduct reconnaissance on behalf of al-Qaida within the United States," according to the court documents.

motivez · 11-17-2006, 02:28 PM

Yeah, I guess now that it's temporarily legal for them to torture people, use hearsay as evidence, use information gathered through torture (which everyone admits is useless, including people like John McCain), it's fine to name them.

Too bad they had to abandon the countries principles in order to offer any evidence against an American citizen who was illegally held, illegally denied due process, illegally tortured, etc, for years though.

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, I guess now that it's temporarily legal for them to torture people, use hearsay as evidence, use information gathered through torture (which everyone admits is useless, including people like John McCain), it's fine to name them.

As long as we're speculating, do you also think they castrated him while pulling out his fingernails?

motivez · 11-17-2006, 02:31 PM

It's not speculation. Try reading the bill Congress passed maybe?

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

It's not speculation. Try reading the bill Congress passed maybe?

It's obvious our definitions of torture differ.

You have no evidence whatsoever that anything you described was used in any of these cases. That, my friend, is speculation.

motivez · 11-17-2006, 02:40 PM

The Geneva Conventions clearly state what is allowed and what is not. We are a signatory to that. The courts clearly stated that the prisoners are entitled to Geneva Convention protections.

It's clear that the President's definition differs from that considering his insistence upon this bill's passage.. and there's been plenty of documented evidence to suggest that methods that are blatantly torture have been used.

There is also ample evidence that they want to be allowed to use hearsay into the "military tribunals" of these accused people, double, triple blind secret witnesses that are often paid for their testimony.. who have a motive to "get back at people," etc.

Torture is a notoriously unreliable method of obtaining information, and people who've actually been tortured, like John McCain will attest to that. He told them whatever he could think of to get it to stop.

That doesn't mean Padilla isn't guilty, it just means that the Bush Administration has abandoned what America stands for and replaced it with more of the Nazi "We're so morally superior, it doesn't matter how we treat those we oppose" bullshit that will be looked back on the same way every other crime against humanity has been.

However, I'm not going to sit around and do research into the subject if someone isn't interested enough to do it for themselves. People are free to believe what they want if it makes it easier to be wrong. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

ballz2wallz · 11-17-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

The Geneva Conventions clearly state what is allowed and what is not. We are a signatory to that. The courts clearly stated that the prisoners are entitled to Geneva Convention protections.

We are essentially the only ones expected to live up to it IMO

It's clear that the President's definition differs from that considering his insistence upon this bill's passage.. and there's been plenty of documented evidence to suggest that methods that are blatantly torture have been used.

It's obviously not as clear if so few claim so

There is also ample evidence that they want to be allowed to use hearsay into the "military tribunals" of these accused people, double, triple blind secret witnesses that are often paid for their testimony.. who have a motive to "get back at people," etc.

Ample evidence that has eluded so many of us?

Torture is a notoriously unreliable method of obtaining information, and people who've actually been tortured, like John McCain will attest to that. He told them whatever he could think of to get it to stop.

'Torture is notoriously unreliable...just ask anti-torture people!'

That doesn't mean Padilla isn't guilty, it just means that the Bush Administration has abandoned what America stands for and replaced it with more of the Nazi "We're so morally superior, it doesn't matter how we treat those we oppose" bullshit that will be looked back on the same way every other crime against humanity has been.

Ah yes, the faithful nazi-Bush comparison. I disagree that anybody in this country agrees with the notion 'it doesn't matter how we treat those we oppose' but you can continue to claim such if it helps you make your point

However, I'm not going to sit around and do research into the subject if someone isn't interested enough to do it for themselves. People are free to believe what they want if it makes it easier to be wrong. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

That's quite ok if you don't want to sit around and do research for your points you're trying to make. I certainly don't have time to sit around and look for things to back up your points either.

Ignorance is bliss, so I hear; is this coming from personal experience?

7960 · 11-17-2006, 02:52 PM