I'd like someone to explain how this isn't as bad as getting whipped

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So under these conventions, even according to American conventions, the techniques described are torture. and President Bush should be impeached for those violations.

I believe the recent Detainee bill just banned waterboarding. Before then it was "questionable." I'd have to say it was torture before then as well though from my interpretation and beliefs. I don't think this war is the first time we've ever waterboarded though.

[motivez]

Uh, no the Detainee bill said the President could define "torture" as well as interpret the Geneva Conventions as he sees fit.

You know, because the judicial branch is just too busy.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Uh, no the Detainee bill said the President could define "torture" as well as interpret the Geneva Conventions as he sees fit.

Yea, but didn't he decide to stop waterboarding and is going to use other methods? For some reason I have it in my head that the Detainee bill passed and waterboarding ended for other means of other "coercive interrogation techniques." I know McCain is against waterboarding and he essentially wrote the Bill. Maybe that's what I'm thinking... I dunno, sorry for my little derailment here.

[Thorgrim]

Water torture is not "dunking"

There is a rag placed in your mouth, water pressure is rushed into your mouth and sometimes nose, now you can still breath and you won't die if you are a young healthy man, but its painful to try and breath

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by motivez

Geneva Conventions say waterboarding is torture.

Psychological interrogation techniques are different than some of the stuff we do to them physically, like waterboarding, stress positions (modern day version of the rack), etc..

The rack broke their backs, dislocated shoulders and hips. Explain how standing in an uncomfortable position is anywhere similar to the rack.

[motivez]

@ "standing in an uncomfortable position"

Stress positions abuse the body the same way that the rack did.

[thatguyoverthere]

Some on this thread just won't ever be convinced that the USA has tortured and used excessive force on some detainees.

There's even a story out there about a US soldier was asked to volunteer (he did) and was used as a mock prisoner to gauge how the soldiers were processing detainees. This guy was described to the soldiers as a detainee, NOT a convict.

In short, they beat him so badly he has brain damage now. It was a white guy, with short hair, pleading for mercy in English. Can you imagine how he would have been treated if he had dark skin, bushy beard, and chattering away in Arabic?

I'm sorry I don't have the link for it, but it is out there on the web. Frankly, I don't think posting the link would help anyway.

It appears that some posters here simply refuse to believe that American troops and/or contractors torture and routinely use excessive, and sometimes lethal, force. It seems that no amount of reason or fact will change their minds.

Torture someone long enough and they'll confess to things they didn't do, just to make you stop.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by motivez

@ "standing in an uncomfortable position"

Stress positions abuse the body the same way that the rack did.

muscles sure, but not breaking bones/dislocating hips. Squat for an hour and see if your legs break

[motivez]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

It appears that some posters here simply refuse to believe that American troops and/or contractors torture and routinely use excessive, and sometimes lethal, force. It seems that no amount of reason or fact will change their minds.

Torture someone long enough and they'll confess to things they didn't do, just to make you stop.

Yep, and it's really sad. Even if they did come around to believing it, they probably wouldn't care.. it seems people who are in support of that do so because it's not being done to anyone they know.

Abuse of the law, ignoring rights for American citizens, etc, is perfectly fine because it's happening to someone they assume is guilty right off the bat, because it's no one they know, etc..

And yes, it's just like McCain said.. he told them whatever they wanted to hear so they'd stop. Every person with experience in this area has said that torture is not a reliable method of obtaining information, but still Bush continues to torture people.

What's also sad is there's no accountability for his actions.. but the Republicans as of late have seemed allergic to accountability and personal responsibility.. which is probably why they lost in die hard red states as bad as they did.

If people are going to be tortured, Bush's signature should be on the authorization form to do so every single time. Instead he secretly whisks them off to secret and illegal prisons outside of the US because they know it's illegal..

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I never thought that being hit with a whip once or twice...and then you died...there is some high occurance of this I am not familiar with?

Yeah, it only happens once or twice then they stop.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Sleep deprivation is defined as torture.

It can be, think emotional abuse, similar to what a child might suffer from their parent constantly calling them stupid and threatening to beat the shit over the years. Try coming out of that unscathed, without any kind of emotional problems.

If that's the case, my neighbors torture me every night.

Come on guys, let's be serious about what we're talking about. Do any of you really care about this shit? This is NOTHING compared to what people associate torture with. This is child's play. Let's stop arguing for the sake of arguing. This is nowhere NEAR what torture can conceivably be; watch Hostel if you want to know what torture is.

[Thorgrim]

You want us to watch a hollywood horror movie to determine what torture is?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You want us to watch a hollywood horror movie to determine what torture is?

They depict a lot of torture in that movie. It's disturbing, but it gets my point across.

Let me assure you, it does not include waterboarding, sleepless nights, loud music, or psychological 'torture'.

[Thorgrim]

They depict many acts Saddam in his worst days never did or endorsed, and he was supposedly the most evil man to ever exist next to Stalin

In fact acts like waterboarding and other things that don't cause organ failure were extremely popular with Saddam, are we to follow in his image?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

They depict many acts Saddam in his worst days never did or endorsed,

They depict many acts of torture. I know for a fact that many governments around the world have done things just as bad. Whether Saddam himself did them, I don't know.

and he was supposedly the most evil man to ever exist next to Stalin

Is this personal opinion or a fact? Personally, I've never heard someone say such a thing. I wouldn't compare the two in regards to their 'evilness'.

In fact acts like waterboarding and other things that don't cause organ failure were extremely popular with Saddam,

I would love to know exactly what Saddam did.

are we to follow in his image?

Of course not, and we aren't.

[6SpeedTA95]

To all those saying waterboarding is torture, explain how its torture.

Making someong think they're dieing vs actually killing them or causing ridiculous amounts of physical harm are completely different. One is psychological the other is ACTUAL PHYSICAL TORTURE!

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

To all those saying waterboarding is torture, explain how its torture.

Making someong think they're dieing vs actually killing them or causing ridiculous amounts of physical harm are completely different. One is psychological the other is ACTUAL PHYSICAL TORTURE!

water boarding causes extreme physical pain, I don't care if you watch my video, or watch fox news, they both say how painful it is...and the military has adjusted its techniques to make it even more grueling by turning the subject upside down to force more pressure:

On Water-boarding
"very exquisite torture"
-John McCain

It causes a severely painful gag reflex, continuasly second after second for many minutes
Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.

His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment.

"This is the problem with using the waterboard. They get so desperate that they begin telling you what they think you want to hear," one source said.
ABC News: CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

To all those saying waterboarding is torture, explain how its torture.

Making someong think they're dieing vs actually killing them or causing ridiculous amounts of physical harm are completely different. One is psychological the other is ACTUAL PHYSICAL TORTURE!

The Geneva Conventions describe it as torture. Standard definition.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

The Geneva Conventions describe it as torture. Standard definition.

There are no permanent physical affects or even any mid term physical affects of waterboarding.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez