I'd like someone to explain how this isn't as bad as getting whipped - Page 5

7th Ninjai · 11-22-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Our definitions of torture are obviously different.

Waterboarding isn't torture.
Waking them up in the middle of the night isn't torture.
Psych'ing them out to think something is gonna happen but it doesn't isn't torture.
Scaring them isn't torture.
Playing Metallica for days isn't torture.

Every last one of those is torture.

Diesel66 · 11-22-2006, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

But we need to keep ourselves to the treaties and contracts that are signed.

That means honor the conditions so named in such documents.

After all, if a person or even country can't keep their word then what good are they?

The GC only applies if both sides are signing parties. Al-qaeda and the taliban have not signed the document and do not follow the rules of war.

kinggovernor · 11-22-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai

Every last one of those is torture.

how would you interrogate detainees for information then?

Thorgrim · 11-22-2006, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

how would you interrogate detainees for information then?

The FBI has long said its tactics work better, and I haven't heard a single person outside the super-hawk crowd have any sort of intelligent disagreement with that

A captured person is told he will spend the rest of his life in a regular jail cell with a bed and get 3 plain meals a day and some sunlight

It could be much better, and he could be shown reasons why cooperating isn't a betrayl to his religion, terrorists in fact are human beings and can be manipulated using normal conversations, and then be rewarded with better cell conditions etc

carrot and small stick approach (such as taking away initial luxuries) works better than torture

ballz2wallz · 11-22-2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

A captured person is told he will spend the rest of his life in a regular jail cell with a bed and get 3 plain meals a day and some sunlight

That would do nothing; that's better than they live now as it is.

Diamond Cross · 11-22-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

The GC only applies if both sides are signing parties. Al-qaeda and the taliban have not signed the document and do not follow the rules of war.

So that means that we don't have to follow the rules of war even if the bad guys won't?

What then is to separate the good guys from the bad guys? By this way of thinking there is no such thing.

Thorgrim · 11-22-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That would do nothing; that's better than they live now as it is.

It worked in other wars when that was better than what they got

German Soldiers coming from the Russian front lived in barbaric conditions

Given a decent life, and offered more, they gave intelligence

It works ESPECIALLY on those who aren't used to the basics of life

Diesel66 · 11-22-2006, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So that means that we don't have to follow the rules of war even if the bad guys won't?

What then is to separate the good guys from the bad guys? By this way of thinking there is no such thing.

There is no good or bad in war. The GC is a gentlemen's agreement between those fighting the war. If one side doesnt follow the rules, the other usually doesnt keep restrict themselves.

Think of it as a fight with no referees. You two make an agreement (no weapons, no eye poking) then the other guy pulls a knife out. Are you going to keep following the agreement if it makes it more dangerous/harder to win ?

Diamond Cross · 11-22-2006, 07:09 PM

Yes.

Because to me, keeping my promises and my word is very important to me. A written contract is another way of keeping my word.

And you're wrong. There is good and bad in war.

Try telling the Jews who survived the concentration camps of WW II that they're no different than the Nazis who sought nothing more than genocide. Try telling that to the families of those who were killed in 911.

There is bad things that happen in war to both sides, there is no denying that. But to say there is absolutely no such thing as good guys and bad guys is laughable, and idiotic.

Diesel66 · 11-22-2006, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Yes.

Because to me, keeping my promises and my word is very important to me. A written contract is another way of keeping my word.

The contract only applies if the other one follows the contract too.

And you're wrong. There is good and bad in war.

Try telling the Jews who survived the concentration camps of WW II that they're no different than the Nazis who sought nothing more than genocide. Try telling that to the families of those who were killed in 911.

There is bad things that happen in war to both sides, there is no denying that. But to say there is absolutely no such thing as good guys and bad guys is laughable, and idiotic.

and terror bombings of dresden and tokyo were "good" ? Lighting fires so hot the air was sucked out of buildings and a cyclone of fire appeared over the cities. And we condemned Germany for bombing London and using the V weapons.

kinggovernor · 11-22-2006, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The FBI has long said its tactics work better, and I haven't heard a single person outside the super-hawk crowd have any sort of intelligent disagreement with that

A captured person is told he will spend the rest of his life in a regular jail cell with a bed and get 3 plain meals a day and some sunlight

It could be much better, and he could be shown reasons why cooperating isn't a betrayl to his religion, terrorists in fact are human beings and can be manipulated using normal conversations, and then be rewarded with better cell conditions etc

carrot and small stick approach (such as taking away initial luxuries) works better than torture

and if they don't give anymore than name rank and serial number what do you propose doing?

PetriW · 11-22-2006, 08:26 PM

The United States have proven by their actions that waterboarding is a perfectly acceptable when interrogating US citizens, I hope you feel the same because the whole world knows the United States supports torture now.

Thorgrim · 11-22-2006, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

and if they don't give anymore than name rank and serial number what do you propose doing?

Same thing they do when someone in real life, when someone only gives them their name and wants to sit there staring at the wall

lock · 11-24-2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

throwing entire armies into concentration camps is "trying to follow the GC" ??

What the fuck are you smoking ?

You are the only person on earth that thinks the Germans followed the GC and you pull these random statements out of your ass.

The nazis followed the GC in the fact the took care of ower troops because we took care of theres, but the didnt follow it in the fact of the were in the middle of trying to kill a race of people. You are both right.

-Lock