Ridiculous: Couple fool around on airplane, charged with violating Patriot Act

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Dont commit felonies then.

So you think that guy asking the flight attendant once to leave him alone, or saying he was going to complain to her boss...that should be a FELONY?

I'm sorry, if I could travel back in time to any place, fascist Italy is not my #1 choice

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So you think that guy asking the flight attendant once to leave him alone, or saying he was going to complain to her boss...that should be a FELONY?

Were you on the flight ?

Because the news reports and the flight attendant says he threatened her. And threatening a flight attendant IS A FELONY and HAS BEEN A FELONY FOR YEARS even before the patriot act.

[SICKGUY]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Were you on the flight ?

Because the news reports and the flight attendant says he threatened her. And threatening a flight attendant IS A FELONY and HAS BEEN A FELONY FOR YEARS even before the patriot act.

did they specify what the threat was?? was it lke "lady, if you dont leave me alone i am going to stomp your guts out!" or more like "leave me alone before i report you to your supervisor!" both can be viewed as threats.

[Thomas Crown]

I think the actions of the accused were wrong and illegal but should not have fallen under the patriot act.

The PA does need to be more narrowly defined.

[avsp]

what does this mean?

They have been placed under legal surveillance until their trial on February 5.

Are they actually going to be watched for all that time?

Seems inappropriate & a waste of resources to me & has presumably only come about because they've been charged under some counter-terrorism law

Or do I totally misnderstand the meaning/intent of the phrase

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

They said "could get" and they charged him with that...that's a fact

As far as repealing the patriot act or blaming it...I didn't say that in this thread, but Montana conservative Jon Tester wants to repeal the entire Patriot Act (he'll be on MTP this sunday)

I hardly think Jon Tester is a "conservative". And btw, I saw him on Meet the Press, he didnt know wtf he was talking about and basically kept rephrasing Jim Webb's comments

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

I hardly think Jon Tester is a "conservative". And btw, I saw him on Meet the Press, he didnt know wtf he was talking about and basically kept rephrasing Jim Webb's comments

Jim Webb could run circles around most the US Senate, he's extraordinarily intelligent, especially on foreign policy

After a few years with Senate hearings he's easily going to be the most intelligent Senator on foreign policy

Jon Tester ran as what he was, a 3rd generation farmer replacing a corrupt Senator

He brings optomism, anti-corruption, montana values to the Senate...he doesn't have any foreign policy experience to think of...so why you would expect him to say anything different

And on taxes it was tough because he comes from a much redder state than Webb and he went second

However after watching Webb and Tester...the new face of the Democratic party in the coming years...I was VERY happy...talk about GREAT guys

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Jim Webb could run circles around most the US Senate, he's extraordinarily intelligent, especially on foreign policy

After a few years with Senate hearings he's easily going to be the most intelligent Senator on foreign policy

Jon Tester ran as what he was, a 3rd generation farmer replacing a corrupt Senator

He brings optomism, anti-corruption, montana values to the Senate...he doesn't have any foreign policy experience to think of...so why you would expect him to say anything different

And on taxes it was tough because he comes from a much redder state than Webb and he went second

However after watching Webb and Tester...the new face of the Democratic party in the coming years...I was VERY happy...talk about GREAT guys

Jon Tester is a farmer from Montana who has a B.S. in Music from an unknown University

I'd love to hear his thoughts on economic liberty, the way the Constitution should be interpreted and federalism. But something tells me he will slide and in and follow the party line

and is him being "red" on taxes mean he wont let the Bush tax cuts expire? What a reformer

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

I think the actions of the accused were wrong and illegal but should not have fallen under the patriot act.

The PA does need to be more narrowly defined.

before the PA, they would have been arrested by the FBI. Does that make the case any less scarier ?

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

before the PA, they would have been arrested by the FBI. Does that make the case any less scarier ?

Yes, because it shows the tip of a much larger police state iceberg.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

Yes, because it shows the tip of a much larger police state iceberg.

How is it a police state ? Planes flying from one state to another state are in federal jurisdiction. The federal police is the FBI. Who should arrest them ?

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

How is it a police state ? Planes flying from one state to another state are in federal jurisdiction. The federal police is the FBI. Who should arrest them ?

The question is, WHAT should they be arrested for and charged with. Felony terrorism under the Patriot Act? I mean, really, if you tell the zit-faced kid you saw him spit in your fries, and you THREATEN to call the manager or kick his ass, aren't you terrorizing this poor young soul? Yippeee, now we can charge you with TERRORISM! (the threat doesn't have to be on an airplane, if you've read the P.A.).

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

The question is, WHAT should they be arrested for and charged with. Felony terrorism under the Patriot Act? I mean, really, if you tell the zit-faced kid you saw him spit in your fries, and you THREATEN to call the manager or kick his ass, aren't you terrorizing this poor young soul? Yippeee, now we can charge you with TERRORISM! (the threat doesn't have to be on an airplane, if you've read the P.A.).

Rewriting history much ?


Federal law before the PA was, threaten a flight personal=possibly felony.

They didnt automatically throw you in prison for 20 years. I posted an example of a man who went beyond this case and only got probation and a huge fine. Wait for the sentencing to freak out. At least wait to see if he is actually convicted.

[Diamond Cross]

Sentencing doesn't matter. The point is they should not have been charged with terrorism under the USA Patriot Act. There are more relevant laws to charge them with. Sex has nothing to do with terrorism.

[phreak]

it's interesting that other articles about this incident mention absolutely nothing about the patriot act.

Charlotte Observer | 11/13/2006 | Sex on plane doesn't fly in Raleigh

Pair Accused of 'Overt' Plane Activity - washingtonpost.com

Press-Telegram - Local couple in mile-high mess over frisky flight

Lawyer:*Man felt sick -- not sexy -- on plane* - CNN.com

Lawyer Disputes Claims of Sex on Plane

seems like, once again, that an incident is blown way out of proportion.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Sentencing doesn't matter. The point is they should not have been charged with terrorism under the USA Patriot Act. There are more relevant laws to charge them with. Sex has nothing to do with terrorism.

HE WASNT CHARGED WITH TERRORISM He is charged with threatening a flight personal (felony even under the old system)

funny how the AP reports it with actual details

At first, the couple complied with a request from a flight attendant to stop their behavior. But they soon resumed during the flight. When asked again, according to Sutton's affidavit, Persing told the flight attendant: "I'm going to give you one warning to get out of my face."
Things deteriorated from there, according to Sutton's affidavit: The flight attendant refused to serve them alcohol. Persing called the flight attendant "a punk." Persing kept asking for alcohol. Sewell told the flight attendants that she worked for a lawyer and it was illegal not to serve alcohol to them. The flight attendant told them to stop asking for alcohol. Persing said, "You and I are gonna have some serious confrontation when we get off this plane."

Sorry but that is a threat.

[hsmith]

I love how through fuzzy laws you can construe anything to be a "verbal assault"

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by hsmith

I love how through fuzzy laws you can construe anything to be a "verbal assault"

so this isnt a threat to you ?

You and I are gonna have some serious confrontation when we get off this plane."

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

so this isnt a threat to you ?

"i am going to beat the shit out of you" is a threat