A massive waste of time, resources, and money

[motivez]

Rented furnishings and hidden cameras were among the props Seattle police vice detectives used to arrest 104 men who showed up at a ritzy downtown condo in the past two weeks expecting to pay for sex.

By Sara Jean Green
Seattle Times staff reporter

Nearly three-fourths of the men who were arrested on suspicion of patronizing a prostitute responded to postings in the "erotic services" category on craigslist, the free online community where people can search for apartments, jobs, used cars, friends and dates. The rest answered escort ads found in the back pages of The Stranger and Seattle Weekly.

"We wanted to prove craigslist was in fact a vehicle for promoting prostitution," said Lt. Eric Sano, commander of the Seattle Police Department's vice unit.

Escorts and the agencies that represent them have long argued that clients pay only for the companionship of a beautiful woman, Sano said, "but for the most part, that's not how it works."

The vice unit launched its elaborate investigation after receiving numerous community complaints about prostitutes advertising on craigslist, Sano said.

To test the theory, undercover detectives arranged for escorts to meet them in a downtown hotel room on Oct. 19, Sano said. Detectives arrested seven women and a 16-year-old girl who made clear they expected payment for their sexual services, he said.

Vice detectives then turned their attention to men who, instead of cruising the streets for prostitutes, respond to online and newspaper ads looking for sex, he said. To make their ads believable, Sano said, female detectives were photographed in flirty poses, phone lines were established and appointments were set up.

Police discovered "a complete subculture" where men call themselves "hobbyists" and refer to the women they pay for sex as "providers," Sano said Wednesday, the last night of the undercover operation.

"They all know each other and have their own terminology," he said. There are even several online "review boards" where men rate their experiences and describe a woman's looks and the sex acts she's willing to perform, Sano said.

Craig Newmark, who founded craigslist in San Francisco in 1995, said he has heard that "prostitution is a significant problem" on the Web site and noted that craigslist has built a "top-notch" reputation for responding to complaints of illegal activity.

As for the local craigslist review board where men discuss the sexual exploits they paid for, Newmark said those who operate the site are improperly using the craigslist name and that legal action is being discussed by the Seattle-based law firm representing his site.

Craigslist, which is now available in some 300 cities worldwide, doesn't monitor what people post.

"We are a democracy ... and we find we can trust our community," he said. "I don't know what the situation is like in Seattle, but we would prefer that [police] go after violent criminals or crooked congressmen."

At one point, the Seattle police operation was exposed on the craigslist review board and "we had to quickly scramble to get new photos and phone numbers," Sano said. As they waited for men to call, "we cruised craigslist ourselves" and arrested 14 more women on suspicion of prostitution, he said.

"Every hobbyist knows the going rate is at least $150 an hour for 'full service' — which means intercourse and maybe a massage," he said, noting men also "negotiate for extra services," for instance paying an additional $50 to have sex without a condom.

The response was "absolutely wild," Sano said. Even after female detectives upped their price to $200 an hour as part of a Veterans Day special, "we almost had people triple-booked" for appointments, he said.

When a man arrived at the rented condo, he was greeted at the door and ushered inside, Sano said. As other detectives hid in a bedroom watching live footage from hidden cameras, the female detective, posing as "a provider," would engage in a conversation about sex and collect her fee, he said.

Once money had changed hands, Sano said, other officers would then walk out and arrest the man.

All but five of the men were interviewed, cited and released: One man, a registered sex offender, was booked into the King County Jail for violating conditions of his release, three others were booked on drug violations and another on a weapons charge, Sano said.

Arrestees have included "bank presidents, state employees, business owners, construction workers, physicians and surgeons," Sano said.

Though some may argue that prostitution and patronizing a prostitute — both misdemeanors — are victimless crimes, Sano doesn't see it that way: "No young girl grows up dreaming of doing this. These prostitutes are women who have had a rough life, whether they're addicted to drugs, or they've been abused or they have some pimp forcing them into it.

"It is easy money ... but these women are being exploited and it's degrading," he said. "You should hear what some of these guys have asked our detectives to do — it's disgusting."

The Seattle Times: Prostitution sting leads to 104 arrests

Seriously, why are the police wasting time on people who want to get laid? Why the hell does a "vice" unit even exist?

vice1
–noun
1. an immoral or evil habit or practice.
2. immoral conduct; depraved or degrading behavior: a life of vice.
3. sexual immorality, esp. prostitution.
4. a particular form of depravity.
5. a fault, defect, or shortcoming: a minor vice in his literary style.
6. a physical defect, flaw, or infirmity: a constitutional vice.
7. a bad habit, as in a horse.

What business is it of the government to regulate morality, or determine what "evil" is, especially when the definitions are based largely off the morality in the Bible.. something that not everyone in the country gives a shit about or feels they need to abide by?

Looking at some of the crime statistics for Seattle [ SPD | Crime Data ], it doesn't look like there's an actual shortage of crimes where one of the people is actually a victim, so why the hell do we want them wasting their time, money, energy, resources, and taxpayer dollars on telling people they can't buy the ability to receive help getting off if all parties are consenting adults?

It's like the smoking bans that have recently passed, telling people they're not allowed to smoke in resturaunts or bars, even if the owner specifically decides he wants it to be allowed, and everyone entering would be made aware of the risks.

I'm so sick of the nanny culture that tells people they can't make their own choices, especially with stuff like this where no one is harmed.

Granted, there could be women in positions of forced prostitution, which is horrible and should be prosecuted because they're not really "consenting," but isn't the reality that most that is because there's an underground market because the practice isn't legal and regulated to some certain extent?

[7th Ninjai]

"You should hear what some of these guys have asked our detectives to do — it's disgusting."

And normally between two consenting adults. I'll never understand why prostitution is illegal either.

[6SpeedTA95]

I have mixed feelings on prostitution, the fact htat it goes on all the time just about everywhere and its illegal and only the average joe gets caught really bothers me. Big wigs get prostitutes whenever they want but of course its not "prostitution" and they have the money to cover their tracks so nothing ever happens

[motivez]

Why do you care if they "get away with it"?

How does it affect you?

What business is it of yours if consenting adults decide to have sex in exchange for some form of monetary compensation?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

Why do you care if they "get away with it"?

How does it affect you?

What business is it of yours if consenting adults decide to have sex in exchange for some form of monetary compensation?

I dont have a problem with it, I have a problem with them busting average joes for engaging in sexual activity among consenting adults. Reread my post.

[motivez]

Yeah, but you said you're "mixed".. what do you care if they don't catch the rich people? Should they be?

Why should they be catching anyone?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, but you said you're "mixed".. what do you care if they don't catch the rich people? Should they be?

Why should they be catching anyone?

No sorry, I have mixed feelings on prostitution enforcement in general. I think if a state wants to outlaw it then law enforcement has a duty to enforce the law until it is overturned. So I think consenting adults should be allowed to engage in prostitution if they so choose as long as it is an open/honest transaction. My mixed feelings are on the enforcement side.

[Diamond Cross]

Here is some info:


Statistics
General Facts

• In 1949, the United Nations adopted a resolution in favor of the decriminalization of prostitution, which has been ratified by fifty countries (3).
• The average age of someone entering into prostitution is 14 years (2).
• At least 75% of prostitutes were sexually and physically abused children (2).
• The majority of prostitutes become addicted to alcohol or drugs (2).
• The National Task Force on Prostitution suggests that over one million people in the US have worked as prostitutes (3).
• Estimates in some larger cities found that 20-30% of prostitutes are male (3).

Abuse

• 70% of prostitutes have experienced multiple rapes by their customers, pimps and strangers (2).
• One report cites 60% of the abuse against street prostitutes perpetrated by clients, 20% by police, and 20% in domestic relationships (3).
• Some prostitutes are raped between 8 and 10 times a year or more (3).
• Of those raped, only 7% seek help and only 4% report the rape to the police (3).
• A recent study showed that, in cases of rape and abuse, 5% of the perpetrators identified themselves as police officers, often producing badges and police identification (3).

Mental State

• Some researchers suggest that prostitutes, in general, suffer from ‘negative identities’ or lack of self esteem (3).
• According to a study, 76% of call girls considered suicide (3).

Clients

• In a study in London, 50% of clients were married or cohabiting (3).
• 70% of adult men have engaged in prostitution at least once (3).

Arrests

• Average prostitution arrests include 70% females, 20% males and 10% customers (3).
• 85-90% of those arrested work on the street (3).

Costs

• Average arrest, court and incarceration costs amount to nearly $2,000 per arrest (3).
• Cities spend an average of 7.5 million dollars on prostitution control every year, ranging from 1 million dollars to 23 million dollars (3).
• Prostitution in the US is a 14.5 billion dollar a year business (2).

facts