libertarians (small and big L) got 0.08% of the House vote, Dems got 51.2%

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by lew

The population voting did not create the Constitution.

1787 – The Constitutional Convention begins on May 25, in Philadelphia. Fifty-five representatives attend and begin drafting the Constitution. On September 17, 1787, the convention comes to a close as the representatives sign the Constitution.

1788 – The Constitution becomes the law of the land after New Hampshire becomes the ninth and last state required to approve it.

Looks like they voted on it to me. 55 representatives came together and it took state approval to make it law.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

And don't forget that most Founding Fathers, including Thomas Jefferson, had slaves, so that invalidates any writings the Founding Fathers had on liberty.

i see, since Jefferson owned slaves, all rights are natural

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

1787 – The Constitutional Convention begins on May 25, in Philadelphia. Fifty-five representatives attend and begin drafting the Constitution. On September 17, 1787, the convention comes to a close as the representatives sign the Constitution.

1788 – The Constitution becomes the law of the land after New Hampshire becomes the ninth and last state required to approve it.

Looks like they voted on it to me. 55 representatives came together and it took state approval to make it law.

so what happens to those who didnt vote with the majority?

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

i see, since Jefferson owned slaves, all rights are natural

Poisoning the well - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DosEquis]

They lost that round? Try again? Campaign some more? Get your message out? Make excuses about why your candidate sucks and stay home, continue to lose, and continue to have people elected that do not share your views?

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by lew

Constitution Party is libertarian.

i wouldnt say that...at the federal level they are appealing however...and much more so than the two parties at every level

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

They lost that round? Try again? Campaign some more? Get your message out? Make excuses about why your candidate sucks and stay home, continue to lose, and continue to have people elected that do not share your views?

Like I said, if government was properly limited (i.e. fed. government staying within its enumerated powers and courts upholding natural rights found in the 9th amendment) then elections wouldnt matter that much...

I guess I am not so much defending those who dont vote, as countering your argument that democracy is an important part of our system.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

Like I said, if government was properly limited (i.e. fed. government staying within its enumerated powers and courts upholding natural rights found in the 9th amendment) then elections wouldnt matter that much...

I guess I am not so much defending those who dont vote, as countering your argument that democracy is an important part of our system.

if your vote mattered, they wouldn't let you vote

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

Poisoning the well - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You must have made a mistake in your URL posting because it takes me to something that has nothing to do with my post

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

if your vote mattered, they wouldn't let you vote

Exactly, you think Lincoln won in a real election? Wrong, he actually got zero votes because he was the anti-christ, the problem is Satan himself stuffed the ballots

[Publius]

Meanwhile in Texas, 22 Libertarian candidates for Federal and State office garnered more than 20% of the vote in their races. The last time even a single Libertarian candidate in Texas broke 20% was 1992.

Excuse if I'm not too upset by your post Thorgrim. The LP has been consistently, if slowly, growing in the US, obviously quicker in some areas than others.

[lew]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

1787 – The Constitutional Convention begins on May 25, in Philadelphia. Fifty-five representatives attend and begin drafting the Constitution. On September 17, 1787, the convention comes to a close as the representatives sign the Constitution.

1788 – The Constitution becomes the law of the land after New Hampshire becomes the ninth and last state required to approve it.

Looks like they voted on it to me. 55 representatives came together and it took state approval to make it law.

Can you point me to where it states that the population was voting on this? Delegates and states voting is not "the people" nor the population.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

Meanwhile in Texas, 22 Libertarian candidates for Federal and State office garnered more than 20% of the vote in their races. The last time even a single Libertarian candidate in Texas broke 20% was 1992.

Excuse if I'm not too upset by your post Thorgrim. The LP has been consistently, if slowly, growing in the US, obviously quicker in some areas than others.

So if they get less than 20% in 2008, is it a milestone?

Or will you guys seize on your apparent? success in Texas, pour money into the federal libertarian candidates who recieved more than 20% of the vote, and get a huge campaign underway?

BTW...22 out of, how many state and federal offices are there in texas?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So if they get less than 20% in 2008, is it a milestone?

Maybe so, maybe not.

Or will you guys seize on your apparent? success in Texas, pour money into the federal libertarian candidates who recieved more than 20% of the vote, and get a huge campaign underway?

I'm not in a position to make those decisions, ask the national committee.

BTW...22 out of, how many state and federal offices are there in texas?

That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the party is still gaining ground, and in a few races even served as "kingmaker" in deciding who was actually elected. If for no other reason than that you should be thanking the LP, because in most of those "kingmaker" races our votes made the Democrat the victor instead of the Republican.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

Maybe so, maybe not.



I'm not in a position to make those decisions, ask the national committee.



That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the party is still gaining ground, and in a few races even served as "kingmaker" in deciding who was actually elected. If for no other reason than that you should be thanking the LP, because in most of those "kingmaker" races our votes made the Democrat the victor instead of the Republican.

Yeah, the 6% really helped us in TX-22 where we won by 10 points

That was the only close race

If you are talking about statewide races...yeah its nice to see a Democrat win in a moderate area...but that battle was lost a long time ago if you remember the shameless 2004 redistricting, and there's no focus on Texas until Hispanics outnumber whites 2-1

But to the larger point: you don't need a national campaign, you think DailyKos takes its marching orders from Rahm? No we thought the guy was a jerkoff in general, and he fucked up several races

So, like I've said before, a meager band of 100,000 of us got together and raised $1.5 million in a small-donation project that raised $5 mil...for a midterm!

All in all, a poor excuse, just like in 1998 or 2000, you guys picked up a few state states, but then you lost them and picked up zilch in 2004 and 2006, now you're pointing to vote totals in an extremely anti-GOP year in GOP districts (as stated before, the national libertarian vote was 0.8%) as a sign of success, I am wondering in 2008, when that goes down, whats your new sign of success?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

All in all, a poor excuse, just like in 1998 or 2000, you guys picked up a few state states, but then you lost them and picked up zilch in 2004 and 2006, now you're pointing to vote totals in an extremely anti-GOP year in GOP districts (as stated before, the national libertarian vote was 0.8%) as a sign of success, I am wondering in 2008, when that goes down, whats your new sign of success?

Actually the LP has been averaging higher numbers every election cycle over the past decade. It is a slow increase, but it is an increase. That is the success, and it's been a constant success over the past few years.

Why are you so scared of Libertarians that you feel the need to attack and belittle everything related to them? For a party that is such a non-factor and so unimportant, you sure do waste a lot of your time and effort talking about them.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Publius

Actually the LP has been averaging higher numbers every election cycle over the past decade. It is a slow increase, but it is an increase. That is the success, and it's been a constant success over the past few years.

Why are you so scared of Libertarians that you feel the need to attack and belittle everything related to them? For a party that is such a non-factor and so unimportant, you sure do waste a lot of your time and effort talking about them.

he doens't care. it is a non issue.

yet he keeps brinnging it up

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

Actually the LP has been averaging higher numbers every election cycle over the past decade. It is a slow increase, but it is an increase. That is the success, and it's been a constant success over the past few years.

Why are you so scared of Libertarians that you feel the need to attack and belittle everything related to them? For a party that is such a non-factor and so unimportant, you sure do waste a lot of your time and effort talking about them.

They certainly don't threaten the democratic party, and they pose no future threat since hispanics are going to control the swing vote as they continue to make up more of the electorate, and they are very community oriented

I am not scared, i just find this all fascinating

We could have used guys like you in 2002 and 2004..."Hey, we lost across the board but, look, even though we lost SEATS we gained raw voting numbers, and raised more money than ever...we're really winning here"

thats what gets me, you guys losing seats of the past decade and going down to zero across the whole country (unless you go to the LP where they celebrate the election of a sewage maintence supervisor) and claiming it as a success?

I could understand losing, thats one thing
I could understand losing, and looking for the good
That's all "understandable"

What still escapes me, is the continual losing, the claims that things are getting better (as the measure for success changes every election), AND the refusal to go out and actually change up things...or any mass movement to get funds or change tactics to win

Look at the democrats, in 2005 they were regarded as the biggest joke, Karl Rove stated (and taken quite seriously) that Republicans had secured a permanent majority

In less than 2 years, they completely regroups, changed up their entire tactics, and even a week before the election, many people were all over cable news saying "i think they don't have a real shot at the senate, but they'll probably barely win the house...18 seats" you had Karl Rove saying he had "THE math" which showed 14 seats at most going Dem, and what happened?
30 seat pickup in the house, we take the Senate against all odds in a total sweep

It's just an anomaly

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by lew

Can you point me to where it states that the population was voting on this? Delegates and states voting is not "the people" nor the population.

In this republic, the views of the state (aka the people in that state) determined whether the state would approve it or not. 55 delegates (a person designated to act for or represent another or others; deputy; representative, as in a political convention) got together from around the country to put this constitution together.

Sure each individual person did not vote on it, but like today representatives went in place instead of thousands of voters.