Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo I don't think they're not concerned. I just think they're not concerned to the degree that the right is. Like I said, if you take a casual stroll down conservative media lane, you'll see lots of scare pieces on how muslims are going to kill us ...
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11-20-2006, 07:32 PM
| #41 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California 
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo And also, as Motivez pointed out, I don't see the the conservative media lane talking at all how it got to this point. And I think understanding how and why we all got to this point is the most important factor for finding a solution to the problem. 
__________________ "People are selfish. But they can also be compassionate and generous, and they care about the country. But not when they feel threatened. That's why this is such a crucial time. We can go in either direction. But if we don't make a choice soon, it will be too late to turn things around. I think people are willing to make the right choice. But they need leadership. They're hungry for leadership." BK/1968 | ||||
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11-20-2006, 07:32 PM
| #42 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo Aside from the obvious physical threat Islamic militants pose via terrorism and other tactics like that, I think it has something to do with recognizing that the Islamic militants are one of a fairly small number of groups that are truly devout and live strictly by their religious beliefs.. (not trying to say it's "good" or "bad" for the zomg u r teh terrorist supportar crowd)..
Religious-devotion envy or something like that. | ||||
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11-20-2006, 07:36 PM
| #43 | ||||
| Political Genius  Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland Yes, but there is a difference between belief and taking violent actions to fulfill that belief. That is what I fear the radical Islamist will try to do. Tell me why that is not a legitimate concern whether you are religious or not?
__________________ Sock It To Me!  "Bureaucracy is a Parasite that Preys on Free Thought and Suffocates Free Spirit!" - Douglas Adams | ||||
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11-20-2006, 09:31 PM
| #44 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative  Realist
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland I think that ties into the belief in good and evil, and therefore religion, which just exists as a sort of phenomenon in their minds...no explanation required, a mystery of the universe. So now that they've labeled terrorists as evil, there's no point in explaining why they act the way they act. They're just evil, period.
Maybe that's why they're so hostile to investigations into the terrorist mentality and the roots of their behavior. They think it's pointless because evil has no root (other than Satan). And if you poke at their "just plain evil" explanation, they interpret that as denying they're evil, and since the world only exists in terms of good and evil, if you deny they're evil, you must be saying the terrorists are good. And if the terrorists are good, and we're their enemies, then you must be saying America is evil. That's why conservatives act like you're on the terrorist side if you ask questions about their origin. In their mental calculations, you've just said the terrorists are good and America is evil. Have got the conservative train of thought right? | ||||
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11-20-2006, 11:04 PM
| #45 | ||||
| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo
Not mine, No! But yes there are probably any number of people on the conservative side who think in such simplistic terms. There are many causes for terrorism, including some real grievances, but nothing that justifies the acts. I think for example that you could have a Palestinian State today if the outsiders and the Palestinian terror groups would back off on the violence and threats of violence against Israel. But would that put an end to the Osama/Al Qaeda types of activity? I think not. They use anger in the Muslim world to recruit, but a violent base of power is what they really want. I have no problem branding that as evil, but I would not brand some of the anger and mistrust of the west as evil. | ||||
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11-20-2006, 11:08 PM
| #46 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON
I have never said that it wasn't legitimate, but, I think the reasons why it is now legitimate is just as important as what we do about it now. And I believe violent actions have been taken on both sides to fufill that belief. I think that looking at it through our American eyes, we see that it's the Islamists that are being violent by covertly attacking us, looking at it through their eyes, they see us as using our power, money, military might to impose our will on them. Both sides have started this, and for many of them that have, they started it because they WANT a holy war. They WANT to see something apocolyptic, because it's the foundation of their beliefs. There are many things that are legitimate concerns. But, just because they are doesn't mean that I want to hear about them on the news daily, or want my kids to grow up in fear of something. You learn what you can about it, and then you hopefully live your life in a way to appreciate the risk and concern, and that's really all you can do. As far as the Islamic threat to the country, I'm aware of that threat, and have been for a LONG time, and all I can do as an individual is vote for people who I think can take the best course of action, and as will you I'm sure. But a flashy montage of burning American Flags with spooky music isn't going to make me live in fear. They did the same thing when the AIDS scare happened, or Cancer, or Global Warming, or whatever the new scary thing of the month is, and frankly, I've become immune and sick of it. | ||||
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11-20-2006, 11:10 PM
| #47 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo I think so. That's why they see the issue so polar, without grey. No point in examining the other side of this, because they are BAD MEN!
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11-20-2006, 11:15 PM
| #48 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON Well, answer me this....
You are saying, that just because we may have done some not so great things to their governments, and because of our actions, caused people to die in their countries, that doesn't give their citizens the "right" or justification to attack us like they do. And further more, to use these political issues to recruit into their terrorist activities, or Militia activities, is wrong. So, when they do something to us, and because of their actions, and the people that died in our country, and essentially the retroactive death and destruction we caused them, we DO have a "right" to go into their territory and cause death and destruction? It seems like you are saying, they don't have the right to act out on being angry.... But we did the exact same thing after 9/11. So, if it's not right for them....how can it be right for us? Are we more righteous than they? They use anger to justify their actions, so did we. Now before I am called a terrorist sympathizer.... It may seem that maybe their reactions are more human than we'd like to admit. They must be, because we do similar things, whether overt or covert. | ||||
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11-20-2006, 11:16 PM
| #49 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative Realist
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON But why, for conservatives, are the roots of terror and justifications for terror permanently intertwined? Every single conversation with conservatives about the roots of terror becomes sidetracked by having to constantly remind them you're not justifying terrorism, just trying to discern the causes of it.
There is something about the conservative mentality that cannot separate cause from justification. | ||||
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11-21-2006, 08:04 AM
| #50 | ||||
| Banned  Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo Conservatives know the reason for their actions; hatred for anyone different. Any other 'why' doesn't matter; they've told us why already. That is the only issue that needs to be addressed at the moment.
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11-21-2006, 09:33 AM
| #51 | ||||
| TPS Member  Independent
| In 93' when the WTC was first attacked, there wasn't a conservative in sight, powerwise. The goal that day was to destroy a "Symbol of American Imperialism (or Capitalism, if you prefer)". That goal would be the same today, whether conservatives were around or not. The confusion with conservatism stems from the involvement of the pentagon, an organization steeped in conservatism, brought in to remove the Taliban from power in Afganistan. That makes it seem a conservative issue, but the facts, indicate otherwise. I try to never lose sight of the fact that, if our airline security had simply been equal to that of EL-AL, the WTC would still be standing, and Hussein would be in power in Iraq. The world today is a dangerous place, and like it or not, security is everybody's issue. Images of American Imperialism and decadence that make us so reviled around the globe aren't labeled liberal or conservative. Even if the most liberal democrat wins in 08', giving liberals all three branches again, we will still be the main target. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 02:47 PM
| #52 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative Realist
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz And do you think that hatred just sprouts up spontaneously? Are they just evil? Or do you think it has deeper roots?
I don't understand why people can be so content with such simplistic thinking. Everything action has a long series of causes behind it, particularly when you're dealing with social issues and human psychology. I can't think of any reason to insist on a simplistic "they just hate us" analysis other than utter disregard for a truly long term solution, or discomfort with the idea that the West's actions played a part in causing all this. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 03:42 PM
| #53 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo It's the part of their religion they focus on. 'Deeper roots' if that's what you want to call it.
You take a simplistic approach to simplistically answer a simplistic situation. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 05:05 PM
| #54 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative Realist
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz You can't just blame this on Islam. The Old Testament has all sorts of outrageous shit in it, but Christians don't (any longer) act on it for the most part.
Originally Posted by ballz2wallz How is terrorism a 'simplistic' situation? It's one of the most complicated problems facing humanity. If it were a simple situation, we'd be able to predict it and stop it very easily.
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11-22-2006, 05:53 PM
| #55 | ||||
| Last Starfighter  Independent Northern California
| Im no conservative, but I am dismayed of the ease that people dismiss it as no threat. They are, after all responsible for the bombing of the WTC. Do you honestly believe they will never strike again? They will, but the trick is finding out where and when. There are thousands of ways they can do lots of damage to America. They can cause train wrecks. Cause propane plants to explode. Strike at chemical plants. Biological warfare. It's not wise to just entirely dismiss it out of hand. However, it's also not wise to use it to cause a lot of fear for reasons of political gain such as saying if you vote for a liberal you're voting for terrorism, which is just stupid. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 08:16 PM
| #56 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative Realist
| Originally Posted by Diamond Cross Of course they'll strike again, but there's only so much you can do. You have the best intelligence possible, you fortify your security, and you hope for the best. But even after you do all that, they'll still get through your security. At that point I view attacks basically like natural disasters...they suck, but they're inevitable, and like anything you have no control over, there's no point in making a huge deal about it.
I heard Sean Hannity the other day tell some lesbian to stop worrying about gay marriage because terrorism is more important. I don't agree with the attitude that terrorism trumps every other issue. In fact, I think just about every other issue trumps terrorism because terrorism is so out of our control. His logic is that we shouldn't fight about stuff like gay marriage because the terrorists want to kill all of us, gay or straight, and then what good is gay marriage if you're dead? Well an earth quake could kill half of California tomorrow. Does that mean every other issue should take a back seat to "the big" one? Of course not...you get your scientists on the ball, do the best you can, and then worry about other stuff. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 10:06 PM
| #57 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo Like I said, it's how these people interpret their religion. That's how simple it is. If Christians were going around killing gays because the Bible says to, it would be the same situation. But they're not.
Terrorism isn't the 'simple situation' we're talking about. The reason behind their actions is the 'simple explanation'. | ||||
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11-22-2006, 10:36 PM
| #58 | ||||
| Last Starfighter Independent Northern California
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo
Believe it or not, I do agree that terrorism is not the most important issue, but I do believe it an important one. The best way to defeat terrorism is to not let it rule, and live life as you normally would. | ||||
