Michael Richards (Kramer) uses N-bomb and slurs during Comedy Routine

[Thorgrim]

"There's a nigger!"
"Fifty years ago we'd have had you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass"
"That's what happens when you interrupt a white man."

CNN.com Video

I don't think white comedians have earned the cultural approval to use that kind of language to a black audience

[TheScatman]

no dispute here, its all about property rights. richards can say whatever he wants as long as its not threatening...that club can kick him out and any other clubs/shows retain the right to not hire him.

Not exactly sure why you posted this on a political forum

[Diesel66]

wah wah wah
public apology ?

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

wah wah wah
public apology ?

here come the politcally correct thought police

[JaJae]

Botched joke? Was it "true", if so he doesn't have to apologize.

In all seriousness, I agree. If you're white you can't expect to go out in public and drop the N-bomb. He made the statements he should own up to them. You go out in public and offend a race or large group of people you should go back in public and apologize in a similar manner you offended. The very least the next day at the Laugh Factory he should have mentioned what happened the day before and apologized publicly. A written letter to a news organization or a sound byte doesn't cut it for me.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

here come the politcally correct thought police

It's not the thought police. But he makes a living off entertaining the public. When you offend the public, you should apologize. Or when he loses a large percentage of his income that's the price he pays. Nobody wants him "punished", I think some people just want him to show some integrity here. Which he has shown he has very little. And it's likely it will hit him in the wallet, as it should.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Botched joke? Was it "true", if so he doesn't have to apologize.

In all seriousness, I agree. If you're white you can't expect to go out in public and drop the N-bomb. He made the statements he should own up to them. You go out in public and offend a race or large group of people you should go back in public and apologize in a similar manner you offended. The very least the next day at the Laugh Factory he should have mentioned what happened the day before and apologized publicly. A written letter to a news organization or a sound byte doesn't cut it for me.

This actually makes a great point in what is a joke that insults and what is a joke that is an honest mistake

See, no one in the crowd thought anything Kerry said meant he was insulting the troops, and no one in the media, even Fox, thought Kerry said anything bad

Days later, the republican machine got a hold of this and used it for political purposes and forced the issue again and again until everyone had seen the soundbyte they wanted to

In this case, you have someone using blatant racial attacks and everyone realizes its over the line immediately, the NAACP didn't have to shop around the video

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

This actually makes a great point in what is a joke that insults and what is a joke that is an honest mistake

See, no one in the crowd thought anything Kerry said meant he was insulting the troops, and no one in the media, even Fox, thought Kerry said anything bad

Days later, the republican machine got a hold of this and used it for political purposes and forced the issue again and again until everyone had seen the soundbyte they wanted to

In this case, you have someone using blatant racial attacks and everyone realizes its over the line immediately, the NAACP didn't have to shop around the video

I don't really want to get derail your thread, so this will be my last post on this feel free to have the last word if you want it. But the news reporters who were there said people gasped when they heard what he said. Some chuckled, some gasped. But you're right Kerry's joke is very strongly debatable that it was a botched joke. And Kramer said what he meant to say, it just wasn't funny. I figured we couldn't have a thread without a bad joke without bringing up the incident in a humorous way.

And another reply to the thought police. Nobody is trying take away his freedom of speech. Nobody said he should stop his act. Nobody wants him punished. They just want him to show integrity, if he has any he'd apologize. If not people will continue to be offended and think less of him. And for a man in his position that means less income.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

This actually makes a great point in what is a joke that insults and what is a joke that is an honest mistake

See, no one in the crowd thought anything Kerry said meant he was insulting the troops, and no one in the media, even Fox, thought Kerry said anything bad

Days later, the republican machine got a hold of this and used it for political purposes and forced the issue again and again until everyone had seen the soundbyte they wanted to

In this case, you have someone using blatant racial attacks and everyone realizes its over the line immediately, the NAACP didn't have to shop around the video

what? All the media stuff I saw on the Kerry shit said what he said WAS BAD but that it wasn't intended to be bad.


As for Richards, sounds to me like it was a joke taken too far to the extreme but I really dunno. Definately distasteful at best.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

what? All the media stuff I saw on the Kerry shit said what he said WAS BAD but that it wasn't intended to be bad.

Kerry made the comments Monday morning, and it was covered nationally as all the major networks (fox included) were looking for any elections news, they found none.

A day later, after looking though all the campaign tapes, Republicans like McCain, without even calling Kerry (even though they were supposedly 'friends') and asking what happened, used the issue for political stunt and make a big public splash to show that he was going to help the republicans rebound before the election

Dick Armey, former Republican House majority leader, remarked of the events "It's pretty standard-fare political discourse. You misconstrue what somebody said. You isolate a statement, you lend your interpretation to it, and then you feign moral outrage."

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Kerry made the comments Monday morning, and it was covered nationally as all the major networks (fox included) were looking for any elections news, they found none.

A day later, after looking though all the campaign tapes, Republicans like McCain, without even calling Kerry (even though they were supposedly 'friends') and asking what happened, used the issue for political stunt and make a big public splash to show that he was going to help the republicans rebound before the election

Dick Armey, former Republican House majority leader, remarked of the events "It's pretty standard-fare political discourse. You misconstrue what somebody said. You isolate a statement, you lend your interpretation to it, and then you feign moral outrage."

Yeah whats you're point? Neither of those disprove what I said if anything they solidify it.

[Diesel66]

btw here is the video
LOTS OF SWEARING, DO NOT CLICK AT WORK
http://us.video.aol.com/video.index....pmmsid=1772645

Looks like people were laughing then shock, then there was an argument between the heckler and kramer



heckler's words after being called nigger
"you are a cracker motherfucker"

[Thomas Crown]

Whites haven't "earned" the right? It is a word. Blacks make racial jokes about whites all the time with no issue, why can't whites do the same?

*waits for apologist rhetoric*

[Thomas Crown]

The video is pretty bad. I wish there was more context to show why he sounded so crazy. It seems someone was interrupting him and behaving badly and he was trying to call them out (al a Dane Cook making fun of black people for talking in movies). He sure seemed pissed.

I've never heard any of his stand up to know if he was funny to begin with.

[DosEquis]

Wow...

I dont think he can apologize for that one. Maybe if he only said it like once.. but he laid it on pretty thick.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

Whites haven't "earned" the right? It is a word. Blacks make racial jokes about whites all the time with no issue, why can't whites do the same?

*waits for apologist rhetoric*

I'll take a stab at it....

There is a significant difference between making a joke and directly calling him a nigger and how 50 years ago he'd have a fork in his ass. Maybe thats just me though.

George Carlin has dropped the N-bomb in his show before but the context in which it was used was more acceptable.

[Thomas Crown]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I'll take a stab at it....

There is a significant difference between making a joke and directly calling him a nigger and how 50 years ago he'd have a fork in his ass. Maybe thats just me though.

George Carlin has dropped the N-bomb in his show before but the context in which it was used was more acceptable.

I don't really see any difference between nigger and honkey or spic or kike etc. But everyone treats nigger so differently that they can't even type the word in context.

That is what I have a problem with.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I'll take a stab at it....

There is a significant difference between making a joke and directly calling him a nigger and how 50 years ago he'd have a fork in his ass. Maybe thats just me though.

agree. Even the fork comment could have been ok if it wasnt for the "nigger, nigger, nigger, theres a nigger" comment

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Thomas Crown

I don't really see any difference between nigger and honkey or spic or kike etc. But everyone treats nigger so differently that they can't even type the word in context.

That is what I have a problem with.

You don't see a difference between "nigger" and "honkey"?

[Thomas Crown]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

You don't see a difference between "nigger" and "honkey"?

They are both racial slurs. Why should one hold any more weight than the other? If they are both said in the same context with the same deragatory sense, they are equally harsh words. One is not any worse simply because of the collection of letters.