The effects of Islam on Pakistan and the world

[JaJae]

I've bolded the important parts that I will be discussing in this thread. Cliffs available.
Print Story: New Pakistani rape laws anger Islamists on Yahoo! News

New Pakistani rape laws anger Islamists

By PAUL GARWOOD, Associated Press WriterWed Nov 15, 6:51 PM ET

Pakistan's lower house of Parliament passed amendments to the country's rape laws Wednesday, ditching the death penalty for extramarital sex and revising a clause on making victims produce four witnesses to prove rape cases.

Consensual sex outside marriage remains a crime punishable by five years in prison or a $165 fine, said a parliamentary official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

International and local calls for change intensified after the 2002 gang-rape of a woman, Mukhtar Mai, who was assaulted after a tribal council in her eastern Punjab village ordered the rape as punishment for her 13-year-old brother's alleged affair with a woman of a higher caste.

The amendments — which still must be approved by the Senate — enraged Islamic fundamentalists, but won cautious support from human rights activists, who wanted the controversial laws scrapped altogether.

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf praised lawmakers for passage and urged the government-controlled Senate to approve the amendments within days. He also criticized Islamic fundamentalists for their "unnecessary" opposition and claims that his government was acting against Islam.

"I have taken a firm decision to change these unjust rape laws as it was necessary to amend them to protect women," Musharraf said in a televised address to the nation.

The amendments were passed by a majority of the 342-member assembly, including Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, who said it marked "a historic day" for the country.

"Nothing is against Islam in this bill," Aziz said, adding that the amendments were made in consultation with Islamic scholars, lawmakers and human rights activists.

Pro-Islamic lawmakers stormed out of the National Assembly Wednesday in protest of the new legislation, known as the Protection of Women Bill.

"We reject it," Maulana Fazlur Rahman, a top Islamist opposition leader, told reporters after the vote, which he described as a "dark day" in Pakistan's parliamentary history.

Rahman and other Islamists vowed to devise a strategy to block Senate passage of the bill. Islamic political groups have previously staged mass rallies to denounce moves by the military-led government deemed contrary to Islam.

Pakistan's late military dictator, Gen. Zia ul-Haq, introduced the laws, known as the Hudood Ordinance, in 1979 to appease Islamic fundamentalist political groups opposed to the secularization of Pakistani society.

Human rights activists and moderates have long condemned the laws for punishing — instead of protecting — rape victims by placing the burden of proof on them and providing safeguards for their attackers, such as requiring four eyewitnesses to bring rape charges.

The amendments come amid efforts by Islamabad to soften the country's hard-line Islamic image and appease moderates and human rights groups opposed to the laws.

Hina Jillani, a leading female Pakistani human rights activist, praised the government for taking practical steps to amend the rape laws, but demanded more legislation to protect women's rights.

"The government has made some positive changes by passing this bill, but it does not meet our demands," said Jillani, of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. "We wanted a total repeal of the 1979 rape law, but the government has not done it."

The amendments include dropping the death penalty and flogging for people convicted of having consensual sex outside marriage and giving judges discretion to try rape cases in a criminal rather than Islamic court. Strict Islamic law dictates that a woman claiming rape must produce four witnesses, making a trial almost impossible.

Discussion on the bill broke down in September after the government failed to win support from opposition Islamic groups, particularly for abolishing the need for four witnesses to a rape.

In a compromise, the government proposed the clause allowing a judge to try cases in either a criminal court or in an Islamic court. The new bill also removed the right of police to detain people suspected of having sex outside of marriage, instead requiring a formal accusation in court.

Ali Dayan Hasan, a South Asia researcher for Human Rights Watch, said the Pakistani government had "failed to remove provisions criminalizing adultery" but had provided "partial relief" by repealing the death sentence.

"The Pakistani government remains in violation of its international obligations on ending discrimination against women," Hasan said.

___

Associated Press writers Sadaqat Jan and Munir Ahmad contributed to this report.

Cliffs: It used to be that rape cases were tried under Islamic courts and not criminal courts. The Islamic court required four eye witnesses in order for someone to be considered guilty of rape. Having extra-marital consensual sex used to be punished by flogging and death. Pakistan has changed the laws so that rape cases can be tried in criminal courts and infidelity is punished by 5 years in prison or a fine.

Pro-Islamic lawmakers stormed out of the Assembly and are protesting this decision. Pakistan is one of the first Muslim countries to make steps in this direction. However, it leaves one to start questioning what other human rights violations are going on in other nations.

In Europe the fertility rate is rate is rather small, typically well under 1.5. The jokes like Big Fat Greek Wedding aren't actually true. We have a different understanding of what is really happening. Greece has a fertility rate of 1.3. Italy, the stereotype of the big families getting together for dinner.. fertility rate of 1.33.

In Europe the Muslim fertility rate is 3 times higher than the non-Muslim fertility rate.

France's population is pushing on 10% Muslim currently. At this rate how long will it take before one-third of the French lawmakers will be Muslim? What about 50%? What happens to human rights as Muslims continue to literally multiply their numbers while non-Muslim populations actually decline by more than 1/3rd? What happens when 3 out of 5 officials on a European country's Supreme Court is Muslim? What does this mean for abortion, gay marriage, separate of religion from state, etc etc? All these values the liberals hold so dear could be eradicated from Europe within our lifetime. France has already seen the inevitable and they have started making laws to disenfranchise certain religious groups. Muslims can't wear their garments where they choose to. Their children have much more difficulty finding work due to laws that were passed giving priority to others. France is riddled with riots for many of their discriminatory laws. These riots began largely last year and still continue. They've tried everything from curfews to use of force. These riots that have been occurring and getting little media attention for the last year are a result of Muslim children and teenagers fighting back their oppressive state, France.

But it's not just French racism that's causing the problems. It's their culture and values.

Ibrahim Badr, a professor of French studies at York University in Toronto:

"The weight of family and tradition and historical background certainly separates them from mainstream French society. It's not just racism. Racism in France isn't any worse than anywhere else."

These are people who immigrated to France, and are rising up in bloodshed and destruction to fight the government sponsored racism and to protect their cultural values in a nation where their values are deemed unimportant. The question is how long before a nation like France which has 1.3 (I've seen numbers as low as 1.1) fertility rate compete with the minority children. Keep in mind these fertility rates include the Muslim population. The non-Muslim French rate is actually lower. What will happen when these rioters have children and they are of protesting age? What will be the population of the dwindling non-Muslim French? And what effects will it have on the politics and culture of France and the western world?

Ultra-liberals often imply Europe is the beacon of hope with socialism, healthcare, education, personal freedoms, etc. Yet here we have very clear examples of a culture that is being riddled with racism and violence due to an oppressed increasing Muslim population that will soon outnumber the non-Muslims in many European countries.

[6SpeedTA95]

This is a good step forward for pakistan. Something that obviously needs to be completely done away with and hopefully this will set an example for other islamic countries.

This type of behavior towards anyone is dispicable regardless of race, sex or age. It is good to see a major regional power taking steps to protect human rights. This also demonstrates the fundamental difference in radical islamic thinking and why it poses a threat to the west and civilized world.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by JaJae

France's population is pushing on 10% Muslim currently. At this rate how long will it take before one-third of the French lawmakers will be Muslim? What about 50%? What happens to human rights as Muslims continue to literally multiply their numbers while non-Muslim populations actually decline by more than 1/3rd? What happens when 3 out of 5 officials on a European country's Supreme Court is Muslim? What does this mean for abortion, gay marriage, separate of religion from state, etc etc? All these values the liberals hold so dear could be eradicated from Europe within our lifetime.

Even more importantly, how long before a significant percentage of US lawmakers are Mulsim?

It starts with one...

[avsp]

The 'Muslim takeover Europe by birth rate' thesis assumes that successive generations of European-born-Muslims not only stay Muslim but also maintain a 'high' net birth rate. Other variants I've seen also assume that there is little or no 'non-Muslim' immigration into Europe & that Muslim immigration remains high.

None of these things are definitely going to be true, though they may turn out to be. The emigration rate will also have an effect of course.

As far as 'liberal' Western Europe is concerned there has been a very large influx of (predominantly) Catholic peoples from Eastern Europe over the last few years. This may affect the 'non-Muslim' net birth rate, ..., we'll have to wait & see.

That said, the various 'dress laws' passed in France & proposed in Holland, Denmark & the UK are, IMO, insane & ill-liberal (in the other sense of the word). Such laws will inevitably provide a nexus for conflict & dispute that militants can exploit.

Turkey has also passed similar dress laws.

The French experience of believing that a purely bureaucratic solution of declaring everyone 'French' & leaving it at that, as opposed to the more 'liberal' promotion of an acceptance of multi-culturalism seems to have enabled racism in the employment market to go unchecked, giving rise to the current situation.

What approach, if any, did the USA adopt to the question of multiculturalism? Historically how great were the problems in the adjustment & accommodation of so many cultures? How long for each 'wave' to be assimilated? Did the differences in the situation from the current one in Europe, particularly in terms of space, have any effect on the process?

Is it really the case that current French employment law gives preference to non-Muslims?

Europe isn’t a unified culture, so some of the gross generalisations made are almost meaningless

OTOH if in 50 years time there is a substantially body of opinion calling for Shariah law in Europe than I can only see it leading to trouble.
Were there, today, to be a continued concerted campaign of violence promoting Shariah law in the UK, then I doubt that there'd be many Sikhs or Hindus left, let alone Muslims, within a year or two.


As for Pakistan, the admin is essentially in a weak position & has to 'cut deals' with many other factions just to keep things running. His recent peace accords with Taliban Jihadists & clerics is a good example as is the various deals struck with fundamentalist Muslims around this & other 'public morals' issues.

IIUC this all arose because of a particular TV series that made an issue of the difficulty in prosecuting rape cases. This strikes me a slightly peculiar & heartening given the general drift away from the 'secularisation' of Pakistan.



BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan 'Taleban' in peace deal - lots of good links on the RHS about the problems Musharraf faces