92 yr old woman resists police state, pays with her life

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, and people have also posed as policemen to kidnap and rape women. Does that mean when the police try to pull a woman over she's justified in shooting the cop that comes to her window?

We have had cases here where women are pulled over by someone posing as a cop and been raped or killed.

My wife and Mom both know not to pull over until they are in a very public area if a cop tries to pull them over.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

We have had cases here where women are pulled over by someone posing as a cop and been raped or killed.

My wife and Mom both know not to pull over until they are in a very public area if a cop tries to pull them over.

I could understand this if there's a spree of police impostor crimes in your immediate area. However, just the mere possibility that it "could" happen does not justify treating the police as if they were criminals. That would mean every time a woman is pulled over on a country road, she should start a slow speed chase into the nearest population center. Or in this case, every time the police force a door open to serve a warrant, you should open fire.

I don't know why you guys keep emphasizing the plain clothes thing either. I understand these cops were wearing bullet proof vests with "police" written on them. But even if they were wearing full uniforms, you guys would be making the same arguments, because sometimes criminals fake the uniform too.

You can think of all the hypotheticals to justify disregarding police authority, but in the end that leads to an unacceptable situation for all of society.

[Diamond Cross]

So the police are to be the ultimate authority? One should just do what the police wants you to do no matter w3hat?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So the police are to be the ultimate authority?

Yes, they are the ultimate authority. That's how our society is set up. When the police have a warrant to search your home or arrest you, you don't get a say in the matter.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

One should just do what the police wants you to do no matter w3hat?

Well, never say never...I suppose if the police were corrupt or told you to kill someone, that'd be debatable. But not shooting 3 of them when they come to serve a valid warrant is no where near that.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I could understand this if there's a spree of police impostor crimes in your immediate area. However, just the mere possibility that it "could" happen does not justify treating the police as if they were criminals. That would mean every time a woman is pulled over on a country road, she should start a slow speed chase into the nearest population center. Or in this case, every time the police force a door open to serve a warrant, you should open fire.

No, but you could call 9/11 and ask if cops are supposed to be following you or be in your house. I guess you just didn't actually think this one though, did you?

I don't know why you guys keep emphasizing the plain clothes thing either. I understand these cops were wearing bullet proof vests with "police" written on them. But even if they were wearing full uniforms, you guys would be making the same arguments, because sometimes criminals fake the uniform too.

The cops' stories just don't seem to be adding up.

You can think of all the hypotheticals to justify disregarding police authority, but in the end that leads to an unacceptable situation for all of society.

Why? Police shouldn't have that type of authority. They are mere citizens.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, and people have also posed as policemen to kidnap and rape women. Does that mean when the police try to pull a woman over she's justified in shooting the cop that comes to her window?

If they were in plain clothes and an unmarked car, you do not have to pull over. But we should let our guard down while at home.


Middle of night someone breaks down your door, first reaction is some crazy guy is trying to harm you. Not hey it might be the police.

It is a big difference from a marked patrol car pulling you over in public

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

No, but you could call 9/11 and ask if cops are supposed to be following you or be in your house. I guess you just didn't actually think this one though, did you?

Not everyone has a cell phone in their car. And what do you want to do? As the police are yelling "police," and breaking down your door, you yell "pause," everyone takes a cigarette break, and then you call 9/11 and make sure it's actually the police?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Middle of night someone breaks down your door, first reaction is some crazy guy is trying to harm you. Not hey it might be the police.

Actually, if someone is yelling "police" as they break down my door, my first reaction is that it probably is the police.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Actually, if someone is yelling "police" as they break down my door, my first reaction is that it probably is the police.

i hope a criminal breaks down your door after yelling police and robs your house after tying you up and killing your pet. Maybe then you'll understand what this lady was probably thinking.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Publius

i hope a criminal breaks down your door after yelling police and robs your house after tying you up and killing your pet. Maybe then you'll understand what this lady was probably thinking.

Hmmmm...let's see...

A group of guys yells "police," breaks down my door and comes into my home. There are two scenarios here:

A) They are police, in which case if I treat them like criminals and shoot at them, and I'm certainly dead.

OR

B) They are not police, in which case I may or may not end up dead.

So if it's a choice between certain death vs. possible death, and it's unlikely that there are a group of police impostors robbing people, I'd rather go with option B.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Oh oh! Or how about police don't go breaking down doors if it's just to look for stuff?!

I mean, seriously, just sit there and wait for the people to get home (or answer the door) unless the intended use of the contraband is to commit violent crimes. That is, if the police are looking for weaponry of sorts, then go ahead and break down the door. If it's to look for drugs, of all things, then just fucking wait for someone to answer the door.

Here's some food for thought: Perhaps the police should umm ... knock for a little bit before busting down doors. Perhaps citizens should be given a chance to say, "I'm calling the station to make sure you're actually police." Perhaps when breaking down doors, the police shouldn't have their guns drawn. Perhaps when breaking down doors, the police should be in uniforms and have their badges out.

[Donkey®]

It's funny that the anti-police group in here is harping on "plain clothes" as a problem. Even if they were in full swat gear you would just say "well, there are instances where people dressed as police have been raiding homes and robbing people" so you might want to drop that as a point. They had a valid warrant. They knocked and announced. They found drugs in the home. The lady shot them. She got what she deserved.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It's funny that the anti-police group in here is harping on "plain clothes" as a problem. Even if they were in full swat gear you would just say "well, there are instances where people dressed as police have been raiding homes and robbing people" so you might want to drop that as a point.

No, I'm not going to drop that as a valid point. Afterall, it IS a valid point. The officers should have been in uniforms. Period.

They had a valid warrant. They knocked and announced. They found drugs in the home. The lady shot them. She got what she deserved.

Donkey® can only hope to improve.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The officers should have been in uniforms. Period.

Run for office and make it a law. I'm sure you know much more about law enforcement then, well, law enforcement

[Kytro]

at the idea laws are made by logically and based on solid reasoning.

Laws are made by people who "feel" they are good idea much of the time.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

No, I'm not going to drop that as a valid point. Afterall, it IS a valid point. The officers should have been in uniforms. Period.


Donkey® can only hope to improve.

You would have been bitching even if they WERE in uniform so who cares what they were wearing?

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You would have been bitching even if they WERE in uniform so who cares what they were wearing?

I wouldn't have placed as much blame on the officers if they were wearing uniforms.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Run for office and make it a law. I'm sure you know much more about law enforcement then, well, law enforcement

I probably do.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I wouldn't have placed as much blame on the officers if they were wearing uniforms.

.


Enforcing warrants at 4 am is the issue, especially when they are no knock or similar. Unless there is a need to break down the door at that time, the police should avoid breaking into houses in the middle of the night.