92 yr old woman resists police state, pays with her life

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Castle defense isnt a law in your world ? Somehow you are supposed to figure out if the invader is the actual police in the few seconds while you are broken out of your sleep and diving for weapons.

You said if someone breaks down your door, shooting him is justifiable self defense, end of story. It's not end of story. In my world, here's the self defense statute:

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.

So in my state, anyway, your right to shoot someone who enters your home is predicated upon reasonably thinking they're trying to kill you, rob you, etc.

In this case, if the police announced that they were police and were wearing vested marked "police," it would be unreasonable to think they were trying to rob you, kill you, etc. So it's not an "end of story," simple matter of if someone enters your house, you get to kill them.

[MoTaVa]

Messin with drugs will get you killed. Having a drug dealer living in your house could get you robbed and killed, or raided and killed. We all know drugs are illegal, we all know we should not have drug dealers living in our homes.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You said if someone breaks down your door, shooting him is justifiable self defense, end of story. It's not end of story. In my world, here's the self defense statute:



So in my state, anyway, your right to shoot someone who enters your home is predicated upon reasonably thinking they're trying to kill you, rob you, etc.

In this case, if the police announced that they were police and were wearing vested marked "police," it would be unreasonable to think they were trying to rob you, kill you, etc. So it's not an "end of story," simple matter of if someone enters your house, you get to kill them.

1. last I checked, politicians don't have a magical ability to define reality as they see fit. That might be the law, but the law doesn't always reflect reality. Using it as a defense in a debate where the law is the very thing we are debating, is not defensible.

2. at 4am, in the dark, anyone awakened by intruders will assume 'burglar' over 'police' no matter what is said. Warrant or not, guilt or not, the cops executed that warrant stupidly and imo they get the darwin award of the month for it. They are lucky they weren't permanently maimed or killed. ..and if that woman was innocent of any crime, they should be executed by firing squad using their own firearms for the way they forced her hand like that. Busting down doors in the middle of the night is NOT the way to bring someone in peacefully.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Messin with drugs will get you killed. Having a drug dealer living in your house could get you robbed and killed, or raided and killed. We all know drugs are illegal, we all know we should not have drug dealers living in our homes.

Only because some politicians with their panties tied on too tightly have decided that they are fit to determine lifestyles for others. It's the criminalization of drugs that creates the violence associated with them. ..and no, I'm about as clean as one can be. I've never used any drugs. I don't even drink much.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You said if someone breaks down your door, shooting him is justifiable self defense, end of story. It's not end of story. In my world, here's the self defense statute:



So in my state, anyway, your right to shoot someone who enters your home is predicated upon reasonably thinking they're trying to kill you, rob you, etc.

Every state that isnt commie has the basic understanding that if someone breaks into your home, you have the automatic right to fear death, serious bodily injury or sexual assault.

In this case, if the police announced that they were police and were wearing vested marked "police," it would be unreasonable to think they were trying to rob you, kill you, etc. So it's not an "end of story," simple matter of if someone enters your house, you get to kill them.

split second at 4 am. You live in the ghetto and know the chances of a home invasion are high. Really think your first instinct is maybe its the police or maybe its the neighbor who came home drunk and went to the wrong house ?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Every state that isnt commie has the basic understanding that if someone breaks into your home, you have the automatic right to fear death, serious bodily injury or sexual assault.

Okay, like I said, it's pointless arguing with you about this. You don't believe the police have a right to enter into a home after announcing "police" to serve a valid warrant, and you think if they do, you can always shoot them and claim self defense. I don't know what else to say to you. That's not the reality of the world we live in. It's your libertarian fantasy world.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

split second at 4 am. You live in the ghetto and know the chances of a home invasion are high. Really think your first instinct is maybe its the police or maybe its the neighbor who came home drunk and went to the wrong house ?

Yes, I do think my first instinct would be that it's the police, considering they yelled police before they entered the home, and then if there were any doubt about who they were, the "police" vests they were wearing would resolve it.

[Diamond Cross]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Messin with drugs will get you killed. Having a drug dealer living in your house could get you robbed and killed, or raided and killed. We all know drugs are illegal, we all know we should not have drug dealers living in our homes.

So what would you do if your daughter was using/dealing illicit drugs?

It's not so simple when it's personal.

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by R-Type

Only because some politicians with their panties tied on too tightly have decided that they are fit to determine lifestyles for others. It's the criminalization of drugs that creates the violence associated with them. ..and no, I'm about as clean as one can be. I've never used any drugs. I don't even drink much.

Cocaine will never be a drug that people use in a recreational fashion. It's highly addictive and extended use WILL make people do things they wouldn't ordinarily do. And I don't mean in the way alcohol does, its a far different animal than booze. I think there may be something to easing restrictions on marijuana, but cocaine is out of the question entirely. I have extensive experience in dealing with this particular subject matter. I have seen many people destroyed by cocaine, and have been flabbergasted at some of the things I have seen crack heads do.

The guy they were after, do you think he was a friendly guy that would have gone easily? If so they would have called him up and asked him to come in.

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So what would you do if your daughter was using/dealing illicit drugs?

It's not so simple when it's personal.

Sure it's simple. Just be a parent, do the job you signed up for. I took a proactive approach when she reached her teens. I took her out into the world and showed her first hand real world situations where drugs like crack have had a huge impact. I drove her through projects where drugs are sold, I let her witness the behavior of both users and dealers. I took her to the jail and let her see the worst of the worst. We had conversations were I talked straight with her as well as listened to what she had to say. She developed her own opinions about drugs and abuse. I am proud to say, mission accomplished. She never used drugs or alcohol, she graduated, she went a joined the U.S. Army. I am very proud.

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You said if someone breaks down your door, shooting him is justifiable self defense, end of story. It's not end of story. In my world, here's the self defense statute:



So in my state, anyway, your right to shoot someone who enters your home is predicated upon reasonably thinking they're trying to kill you, rob you, etc.

In this case, if the police announced that they were police and were wearing vested marked "police," it would be unreasonable to think they were trying to rob you, kill you, etc. So it's not an "end of story," simple matter of if someone enters your house, you get to kill them.

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

...You don't believe the police have a right to enter into a home after announcing "police" to serve a valid warrant, and you think if they do, you can always shoot them and claim self defense. I don't know what else to say to you. That's not the reality of the world we live in. It's your libertarian fantasy world.

Yes, I do think my first instinct would be that it's the police, considering they yelled police before they entered the home, and then if there were any doubt about who they were, the "police" vests they were wearing would resolve it.

You, too, seem to be living in a fantasy world. One where only police can look and sound like "police" at cursory glance . Of course, the flip side of this, at least I know how to rob a liberal. A quick stop at a military surplus store for some cop-looking gear, and I can bust down a door and yell "police!" and the stupid liberals succumb to my will. Like magic. Almost makes me want to take up super-villiany and move to the city.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

You, too, seem to be living in a fantasy world. One where only police can look and sound like "police" at cursory glance . Of course, the flip side of this, at least I know how to rob a liberal. A quick stop at a military surplus store for some cop-looking gear, and I can bust down a door and yell "police!" and the stupid liberals succumb to my will. Like magic. Almost makes me want to take up super-villiany and move to the city.

A liberal? You think if you posed as a policeman, that would only work on liberals? Again, you're showing how far removed you are from reality. The vast, vast majority of people generally would submit to someone who is apparently a police officer, whether liberal or not. Only a tiny portion of the population would resist an apparent police officer, either because they're paranoid, a criminal or a hardcore libertarian survivalist wacko type.

Again, that's not a flaw on the part of those who would submit, but simply a recognition of how our society is set up. The day people start disregarding the authority of the police en masse is the day all order breaks down.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

You, too, seem to be living in a fantasy world. One where only police can look and sound like "police" at cursory glance . Of course, the flip side of this, at least I know how to rob a liberal. A quick stop at a military surplus store for some cop-looking gear, and I can bust down a door and yell "police!" and the stupid liberals succumb to my will. Like magic. Almost makes me want to take up super-villiany and move to the city.

This bullshit is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my prior posts. Even IF they were in FULL SWAT GEAR you guys would STILL blame the cops because you have some kind of hatred for authority figures.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Cocaine will never be a drug that people use in a recreational fashion. It's highly addictive and extended use WILL make people do things they wouldn't ordinarily do. And I don't mean in the way alcohol does, its a far different animal than booze. I think there may be something to easing restrictions on marijuana, but cocaine is out of the question entirely. I have extensive experience in dealing with this particular subject matter. I have seen many people destroyed by cocaine, and have been flabbergasted at some of the things I have seen crack heads do.

The guy they were after, do you think he was a friendly guy that would have gone easily? If so they would have called him up and asked him to come in.

Well the guy wasn't the one shot was he? The cops' pigheaded arrogance got an innocent killed and themselves injured (assuming that's the story). I can't say I'm surprised, but I'm sure all they'll get is a slap on the wrist instead of prison time followed by a new career at burgerking and a special place in the hall of darwin award winners.

I'm sure cocaine destroys lives, but criminalizing it and other drugs the way we do just adds to the toll because it punishes the user above and beyond the already bad situation he got himself in. I fail to see how that helps anything except give insecure people a means to wag fingers and feel righteous.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This bullshit is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my prior posts. Even IF they were in FULL SWAT GEAR you guys would STILL blame the cops because you have some kind of hatred for authority figures.

Why shouldnt we fear these cops ? They ended up killing an innocent woman

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Why shouldnt we fear these cops ? They ended up killing an innocent woman

Because she shot 3 of them first. What do you think happens when you shoot 3 cops? Do you think it's reasonable to expect any other response? This woman essentially committed suicide by cop.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Because she shot 3 of them first. What do you think happens when you shoot 3 cops? Do you think it's reasonable to expect any other response? This woman essentially committed suicide by cop.

What happens when you break into homes at 4am, you get shot.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

What happens when you break into homes at 4am, you get shot.

Okay, so should that sort of thing be illegal? Should we make an announcement to drug dealers that the police may not enter their homes at night to serve warrants?

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by R-Type

Well the guy wasn't the one shot was he? The cops' pigheaded arrogance got an innocent killed and themselves injured (assuming that's the story). I can't say I'm surprised, but I'm sure all they'll get is a slap on the wrist instead of prison time followed by a new career at burgerking and a special place in the hall of darwin award winners.

I'm sure cocaine destroys lives, but criminalizing it and other drugs the way we do just adds to the toll because it punishes the user above and beyond the already bad situation he got himself in. I fail to see how that helps anything except give insecure people a means to wag fingers and feel righteous.

Well none of the cops are dead, are they? And before its over 'the' guy will either be arrested or meet the same fate. Of that you can be sure.

The last part of what you said would be great if users only screwed up their own lives. But coke heads usually ending up stepping all over the rights of law abiding productive citizens. Now if they had their own lil place in the world where they could go rob, rape , and kill each other for coke, that'd be fine by me.

[lew]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, so should that sort of thing be illegal? Should we make an announcement to drug dealers that the police may not enter their homes at night to serve warrants?

It already is.