92 yr old woman resists police state, pays with her life

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

Everything in bold I'm for.

There should only be laws regarding crimes directly against another human being. Theft, rape, and murder directly harm another human. They should be illegal.

Nothing in the bold does. They should be legal.

We let people eat themselves to death in this country and they are just good consumers.

Every time I hear someone on TV talk about how drugs ruined their lives, I want to slap them. It wasn't the drugs. It was your addictive personality, inability to deal with life and lack of self control that's the problem.
It they weren't out doing drugs they would be doing something else that could harm them like drinking, perscription drugs, eating, over spending, skydiving, demolition derby...ect.

Lets have some fucking personal responsibility here.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So no dangerous substances should be banned then?

Fine, let's let the average citizen own a pound of Uranium and oh say Get rid of the no lead poisoning and abestoes and use them, and let's get rid of the pollution control laws and force everybody to smoke ten packs a day and allow drunk driving with no penalties.

The difference between these substances and cocaine is that they are pollutants with no perceivable benefits.. if I dump a pound of uranium into my well, it affects my neighbors for 30mi in all directions but does no good.. Asbestos is a known carcinogen and also has no benefits whatsoever that aren't available from other sources. That's why the control of it has been largely successful. The demand for the benefits asbestos provided have been met with other materials. Unlike drugs, this isn't simply a case of the government saying 'no.' Coke has 'benefits' for those who choose to use it. Like any other drug, if you damage life/property while on it, then pay the consequences, but this is NOT the same as allowing lax controls on toxic chemical use, which would be stupid beyond belief.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I mean who really gives a shit if some drunk driver runs over some five year old boys. Oh and lets remove things like rape and child sexual molestation too while we're at it. After all it's fun to do those things and nobody really gets hurt.

but yet people are still allowed to drink, so why can't they decide how to use and handle coke as well? most of the crime you're attributing to its use is actually a result of it's market being suppressed. no one here is underestimating the harm that coke can bring, but outlawing it prohibition style just makes it worse for addicts and the communities which house them, not better.

[Diamond Cross]

But you see, the use of those illicit drugs often causes people to endanger other people as well. For example, Marijuana along with alcahol is one of the leading causes of car accidents. Cocaine is dangerous in workplaces such as say a fork life operator.

And even suicide isn't truly legal. For example, what usually happens if somebody attempts to commit suicide in public and fails? They're usually arrested and sent to psychiatric counseling for several months.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

But you see, the use of those illicit drugs often causes people to endanger other people as well. For example, Marijuana along with alcahol is one of the leading causes of car accidents. Cocaine is dangerous in workplaces such as say a fork life operator.

but yet those are legal to buy, sell, and use (besides mj). Cocaine is not, causing the same kinds of underground violence alcohol did during its prohibition. marijuana enforcement has ruined many lives that would otherwise have been positive. Nanny state laws don't help situations like this. You just need laws which protect others from irresponsibility which affects them. If I smoke a crack pipe and then kill you in a car accident, I deserve to be punished.. if I smoke a crack pipe and harm no one, I shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

And even suicide isn't truly legal. For example, what usually happens if somebody attempts to commit suicide in public and fails? They're usually arrested and sent to psychiatric counseling for several months.

..and that's just as misguided. Taking your own life is your own business...or at least it should be.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

But you see, the use of those illicit drugs often causes people to endanger other people as well.

And people should be punished if they are causing harm to other people.

For example, Marijuana along with alcahol is one of the leading causes of car accidents.

And if someone is driving while under the influence of both of those substances and they cause an accident, then they should be punished.

Cocaine is dangerous in workplaces such as say a fork life operator.

Then workplaces can make rules saying, "No operating fork lifts while on cocaine." Simple solution, actually.

And even suicide isn't truly legal. For example, what usually happens if somebody attempts to commit suicide in public and fails? They're usually arrested and sent to psychiatric counseling for several months.

That's irrelevant, and it's not entirely true.

[Donkey®]

Did I read correctly? Someone is actually trying to say Cocaine isn't dangerous? I guess the end of the thread is here.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Did I read correctly? Someone is actually trying to say Cocaine isn't dangerous? I guess the end of the thread is here.

It's not if it's used properly. Again, it's used in some surgeries to open up the nasals. Just like how water isn't dangerous if it's used properly, or guns aren't dangerous if you use them properly.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

It's not if it's used properly. Again, it's used in some surgeries to open up the nasals. Just like how water isn't dangerous if it's used properly, or guns aren't dangerous if you use them properly.

Absolutely and 164% INCORRECT. Cocaine is capable of stopping your heart in one dose. Also, comparing medical uses of cocaine and other drugs to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying cocaine isn't dangerous.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Absolutely and 164% INCORRECT. Cocaine is capable of stopping your heart in one dose. Also, comparing medical uses of cocaine and other drugs to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying cocaine isn't dangerous.

164%?

Of course it is dangerous. Many things in life are dangerous.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Absolutely and 164% INCORRECT.

Prove me wrong.

Cocaine is capable of stopping your heart in one dose.

Link? Proof? Is the proof verifiable?

Also, comparing medical uses of cocaine and other drugs to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying cocaine isn't dangerous.

Also, comparing the medical uses of CO2 and other chemical compounds to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying CO2 isn't dangerous.

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

It's not if it's used properly. Again, it's used in some surgeries to open up the nasals. Just like how water isn't dangerous if it's used properly, or guns aren't dangerous if you use them properly.

Not cocaine...a dirivitive...or one of many dirivitives. You'll have to point me to some facts on that one. Meanwhile go look at this History Of Cocaine, Medical Use

The problem with cocaine is its addictive nature. A user will not continue to use the same amount. Its ever increasing. Just take that and run with it. What happens next? The user has to by larger quanties. Its expensive. Then what. Empty bank account. Then what? Money by any means. Then what? You see that road is dangerous because it involves and addict getting money by any means possible. Selling, hocking, stealing. Killing.

Like I said earlier in this post, I have extensive experience in dealing with cocaine addicts. Trust me, these folks CAN be very dangerous given the right set of circumstances. The chemical changes that occur within the brain actually produce different thought patterns while under the influence. A person that exhibits little to no agressive behavior can in fact rape and kill while under the influence of cocaine. Mind you, I didnt say every user. But who wants to take a chance like that when you have children walking around in the world.

Side note:
Morphinism, ever heard of that? Back in the day, morphine was new and widely used. Doctors began using morphine to help relax. They quickly became addicted an thus morphinism was coined. To try and help the morphine addicts herion was developed. To try and help the herion addicts methodone was developed. Now we have hydocodone,oxycodone and oxycontin.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Prove me wrong.


Link? Proof? Is the proof verifiable?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so i'll just some general facts you're clearly unaware of.

Originally Posted by article

Adverse reactions may be due to high plasma levels as a result of excessive and rapid absorption of the drug. Reactions are systemic in nature and involve the central nervous system and/or the cardiovascular system. A small number of reactions may result from hypersensitivity, idiosyncrasy or diminished tolerance on the p.r. of the patient. CNS reactions are excitatory and/or depressant, and may be characterized by nervousness, restlessness and excitement. Tremors and eventually clonicotonic convulsions may result. Emesis may occur. Central stimulation is followed by depression, with death resulting from respiratory failure. Small doses of cocaine slow the heart rate, but after moderate doses, the rate is increased due to central sympathetic stimulation. Cocaine is pyrogenic, augmenting heat production in stimulating muscular activity and causing vasoconstriction which decreases heat loss. Cocaine is known to interfere with the uptake of norepinephrine by adrenergic nerve terminals, producing sensitization to catecholamines, causing vasoconstriction and mydriasis. Cocaine causes sloughing of the corneal epithelium, causing clouding, pitting, and occasionally ulceration of the cornea. The drug is not meant for ophthalmic use.

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Also, comparing the medical uses of CO2 and other chemical compounds to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying CO2 isn't dangerous.

CO2 is not addictive. Invalid comparison.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so i'll just some general facts you're clearly unaware of.

So basically..... you're admitting that you have no proof, right?

CO2 is not addictive. Invalid comparison.

K, here you go:

Also, comparing the medical uses of HFCS and other substances to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying HFCS isn't dangerous.

Also, comparing the medical uses of C8H10N4O2 and other chemical compounds to recreational uses is just as dumb as saying C8H10N4O2 isn't dangerous.

The first one is high fructose corn syrup, which is addictive. The latter is caffine, which is addictive. I threw in caffine in case you said "but HFCS isn't a drug!"

It should also be noted that caffine is addictive for the same reason that cocaine is addictive. And, just like cocaine, it is dangerous if it is taken in large amounts.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Not cocaine...a dirivitive...or one of many dirivitives. You'll have to point me to some facts on that one. Meanwhile go look at this History Of Cocaine, Medical Use

The problem with cocaine is its addictive nature. A user will not continue to use the same amount. Its ever increasing. Just take that and run with it. What happens next? The user has to by larger quanties. Its expensive. Then what. Empty bank account. Then what? Money by any means. Then what? You see that road is dangerous because it involves and addict getting money by any means possible. Selling, hocking, stealing. Killing.

same with any other addictive personality, under the right circumstances it will kill to get what it wants.

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Like I said earlier in this post, I have extensive experience in dealing with cocaine addicts. Trust me, these folks CAN be very dangerous given the right set of circumstances. The chemical changes that occur within the brain actually produce different thought patterns while under the influence. A person that exhibits little to no agressive behavior can in fact rape and kill while under the influence of cocaine. Mind you, I didnt say every user. But who wants to take a chance like that when you have children walking around in the world.

oh yes, the poor helpless children. lets regulate and legislate ourselves into a web of incompetence...for the children. A huge majority of children know drugs are bad for them. The education system is working fine in that regard. No offense, but I tire of politicians using this excuse to justify their totalitarian policy du jour. I don't mind some reasonable safeguards and education to teach people how bad this stuff is, but turning possession/use of drugs into crimes just makes the situation worse than it already is. We learned this with alcohol, so why not with other drugs? These people need help, not prison sentences folowed by lifelong branding (Felon). All that does is prevent them from ever living normal lives again, and that does nothing but steer them right back to their old habits.

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by R-Type

same with any other addictive personality, under the right circumstances it will kill to get what it wants.

oh yes, the poor helpless children. lets regulate and legislate ourselves into a web of incompetence...for the children. A huge majority of children know drugs are bad for them. The education system is working fine in that regard. No offense, but I tire of politicians using this excuse to justify their totalitarian policy du jour. I don't mind some reasonable safeguards and education to teach people how bad this stuff is, but turning possession/use of drugs into crimes just makes the situation worse than it already is. We learned this with alcohol, so why not with other drugs? These people need help, not prison sentences folowed by lifelong branding (Felon). All that does is prevent them from ever living normal lives again, and that does nothing but steer them right back to their old habits.

WOW. Yoiu are not thinking this all the way through. Your stuck on the surface issue of 'dont tell me what to do.' You seem to think that if you dont have this mysterious addictive personality you can use cocaine safely? I dont agree with that theory. The substance is addictive whether or not you have a certain personality type. It chemical friend. Not emotional or phycological. Making them illegal gives law enforcement the tools they need to protect our children (and adults for that matter) from those of us that would destroy them as well as themselves in a drug induced haze, whether accidentally or intenionally. No amount of bantering or debating will change the fact that this particular compound is extremely addictive and dangerous, as shown by innumerable case studies.

[nbiggershaft]

What does any of this have to do with the warrent? You want police to stop serving warrents judges issue on drug dealers because you are cool with cocaine?

Personally I think plainclothes anything other than investigation is absurd, all this drug convo is irrelevent though.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

WOW. Yoiu are not thinking this all the way through. Your stuck on the surface issue of 'dont tell me what to do.' You seem to think that if you dont have this mysterious addictive personality you can use cocaine safely?

Nope, I'm sure I'd have serious issues if I did.

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

I dont agree with that theory. The substance is addictive whether or not you have a certain personality type. It chemical friend. Not emotional or phycological.

Agreed. As are plenty of other legal substances.

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

Making them illegal gives law enforcement the tools they need to protect our children (and adults for that matter) from those of us that would destroy them as well as themselves in a drug induced haze, whether accidentally or intenionally.

No. It clogs the legal system with tons of useless cases of victimless 'crime,' and it ruins whatever chances these people have of cleaning up and leading normal lives afterward. It also creates a black market for this stuff which drives up its costs which in turn amplifies the violence element. Thus, criminalization makes the situation WORSE, not better for the addict and the public. We already have laws which govern the kinds of things crazed drug addicts tend to do (robbery and assault), so why not clean them up instead, and then make them face legal punishment if applicable for their actions against others? I say this because it's obvious the 'threat' of punishment alone is insufficient to keep people away.

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

No amount of bantering or debating will change the fact that this particular compound is extremely addictive and dangerous, as shown by innumerable case studies.

With this logic, I could argue that we should ban all drugs. We all know how well that would work.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Donk