All American soldiers are out of Iraq by tomorrow - Page 2

AVengeance · 11-27-2006, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

We are immediatly hit by hundreds of 9/11 style attacks and we're all speaking arabic by next week and living under islamic law.

Sounds easier than speaking Chinese, which we'd all be doing if Gore were president.

DosEquis · 11-27-2006, 11:55 AM

This is assuming the true "cut and run", the true "take every soldier out immediately", and NOTHING to do with phased withdrawls or anything that is currently being discussed as option by either party.

I believe some new militia groups stand up while others are told to stand down, basically keeping the country in a level of death and destruction equal to todays numbers. Iran and Syria will jump at the chance to look like heros and say "see americans suck, we are here to help you please stop shooting at each other, god wants peace. good job militias you sent the infidel pigs home with their tale between their legs" Iran will try to impose its own influence, sunni insurgent groups get real upset because they are still losing control they had under saddam to the shiite muslims. Iran has a anti-western theocracy/democracy installed and they spew anti-american propaganda all over the region. They call it a "democracy" because people are voting but they will only put 1 or 2 hand picked candidates forward to choose from. They murder thousands of sunni muslims in some sort of proxy civil war, and it damn near approaches some sort of ethnic cleansing. It takes 4-8 years for the killing to slow down and the anti-west/pro-iran, syria, hezbullah, al qaeda, hamas supporting government runs Iraq.

The immediate withdrawl of all of the soldiers would be a huge mistake. Phased withdrawl is the way to go. We need to keep some in Iraq and they are to have more of a support role rather than be the primary responder for security. We have been told for 3 years that "they stand up we stand down". Its time for that transition now, they have 200,000 trained ready to go. They need to stand up. To start we leave 1/2 of our soldiers in Iraq, most of which are in more remote areas and less violent areas. 1/4th is moved to kuwait or other neighboring countries and 1/4th is brought home right away.

nbiggershaft · 11-27-2006, 12:12 PM

Shiite militias would kill like crazy, insuring years of tension and retribution, until pressure from the U.N. and moderate clerics slowed them down. Sharia law would be imposed. The kurds would form their own state, which would probably be passively attacked by Turkey. Iran would wield influence but not likely take over. My two cents.

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

From the fact that those countries are currently sending insurgents there to fight.

If we didn't like canadia and were sending people there to destabilize the country and all the sudden the only semi-stabilizing force left then IMO the next logical step would be to send *more* people there.

But I can see your logic of sending people to destabilize and then when it happens, leaving and laughing while saying "Oh shitz it worked! It actually WORKED!!" like it was a college frat prank

1: Proof of these countries "sending people"?

2: IF that were even the case, wouldn't they be doing it just to get the US OUT of their region? Making things hard on US?

7960 · 11-27-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

1: Proof of these countries "sending people"?

'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis

Who are the suicide bombers of Iraq? By the radicals' account, they are an internationalist brigade of Arabs, with the largest share in the online lists from Saudi Arabia and a significant minority from other countries on Iraq's borders, such as Syria and Kuwait. The roster of the dead on just one extremist Web site reviewed by The Washington Post runs to nearly 250 names, ranging from a 13-year-old Syrian boy said to have died fighting the Americans in Fallujah to the reigning kung fu champion of Jordan, who sneaked off to wage war by telling his family he was going to a tournament.

2: IF that were even the case, wouldn't they be doing it just to get the US OUT of their region? Making things hard on US?

No idea. Why don't you go over there and ask them?

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis

Who are the suicide bombers of Iraq? By the radicals' account, they are an internationalist brigade of Arabs, with the largest share in the online lists from Saudi Arabia and a significant minority from other countries on Iraq's borders, such as Syria and Kuwait. The roster of the dead on just one extremist Web site reviewed by The Washington Post runs to nearly 250 names, ranging from a 13-year-old Syrian boy said to have died fighting the Americans in Fallujah to the reigning kung fu champion of Jordan, who sneaked off to wage war by telling his family he was going to a tournament.

Saudi's huh? Not on the list of "landgrabbers" you mentioned earlier. Also, just because someone is from a certain country doesn't mean that country is sending them.

Originally Posted by 7960

No idea. Why don't you go over there and ask them?

Yet you just said you KNOW what Iran and Syria are trying to do?

7960 · 11-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Saudi's huh? Not on the list of "landgrabbers" you mentioned earlier. Also, just because someone is from a certain country doesn't mean that country is sending them.

You're right. Everyone fighting in iraq is an iraqi citizen. Syria is not providing a way for insurgents to enter iraq, iran did not come into iraq and kill anyone, turkey does not side with the kurds in their efforts against the PKK, and my post didn't say "and anyone else" so I should not have posted anything about the saudis.

Yet you just said you KNOW what Iran and Syria are trying to do?

No, I don't. I was wrong. You were right as usual. Forgive me for posting in a thread that called for opinions when you so clearly already have all the answers.

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

You're right. Everyone fighting in iraq is an iraqi citizen. Syria is not providing a way for insurgents to enter iraq, iran did not come into iraq and kill anyone, turkey does not side with the kurds in their efforts against the PKK, and my post didn't say "and anyone else" so I should not have posted anything about the saudis.

Again...no they are NOT all Iraqi citizens...but that doesn't mean Iranian and Turkish and Syriaian governments SENT them in a large conspiracy driven "land grab" attempt.

Originally Posted by 7960

No, I don't. I was wrong. You were right as usual. Forgive me for posting in a thread that called for opinions when you so clearly already have all the answers.

I wish it were this easy all the time...but I digress. Of COURSE you're asked to give your opinion, but if it is based in total fiction, expect it to be examined and criticized.

7960 · 11-27-2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Again...no they are NOT all Iraqi citizens...but that doesn't mean Iranian and Turkish and Syriaian governments SENT them in a large conspiracy driven "land grab" attempt.

Of course you are correct. I should have said "syrians, iranians, turks, and groups of people from other countries *but*not*govt*sponsored*groups* may attempt to do this." All of these groups opperate independent of any govt and are not funded, equipped by them, or given tacit approval by turning a blind eye to what's happening. Nope, not happening. Just because these groups have already been doing this doesn't mean they would continue...I mean, WTF!! How stupid am I?!??!!

I wish it were this easy all the time...but I digress. Of COURSE you're asked to give your opinion, but if it is based in total fiction, expect it to be examined and criticized.

How could I think to post in a forum where you know all? From now on all of my posts that reply to a question will start with the disclaimer "Wait for donkey, he'll know!!"

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Of course you are correct. I should have said "syrians, iranians, turks, and groups of people from other countries *but*not*govt*sponsored*groups* may attempt to do this." All of these groups opperate independent of any govt and are not funded, equipped by them, or given tacit approval by turning a blind eye to what's happening. Nope, not happening. Just because these groups have already been doing this doesn't mean they would continue...I mean, WTF!! How stupid am I?!??!!

I'd love to see any proof you have of government sanctioned activity in Iraq by the Saudi's or Turkey...heck, Syria and Iran would be a bonus. The only proof that you can aim towards Iran and Syria, is that they sit idle while these people use their borders. That is far from "Hey Ahmad, go do this." And it's funny you expect other countries to have complete control of their borders when our's are absolutely pitiful.

Originally Posted by 7960

How could I think to post in a forum where you know all? From now on all of my posts that reply to a question will start with the disclaimer "Wait for donkey, he'll know!!"

Right...because we're not supposed to be discussing anything. Got it. BTW, you weren't the only one posting some out there opinions...

JaJae · 11-27-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I'd love to see any proof you have of government sanctioned activity in Iraq by the Saudi's or Turkey...heck, Syria and Iran would be a bonus. The only proof that you can aim towards Iran and Syria, is that they sit idle while these people use their borders. That is far from "Hey Ahmad, go do this." And it's funny you expect other countries to have complete control of their borders when our's are absolutely pitiful.

There are insurgents in Iraq from other countries armed out their ass. RPGs, grenades, mines, assualt rifles.. all for one person. The equipment shows they came from countries like Iran. How does a guy who can barely afford to eat manage to get his hands on all that government weaponry?

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

There are insurgents in Iraq from other countries armed out their ass. RPGs, grenades, mines, assualt rifles.. all for one person. The equipment shows they came from countries like Iran. How does a guy who can barely afford to eat manage to get his hands on all that government weaponry?

It has been demonstrated time and time again that these organizations have their own means of raising money and purchasing arms. You also forget that a great deal of these "arms" are left over from Iraq's stockpile...which we did a piss poor job of securing.

JaJae · 11-27-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It has been demonstrated time and time again that these organizations have their own means of raising money and purchasing arms. You also forget that a great deal of these "arms" are left over from Iraq's stockpile...which we did a piss poor job of securing.

I didn't know the Iranian government was in the business of selling weapons to insurgents fighting in Iraq. Is that your new position? They funded the money on their own and bought them from a willing Iranian government?

DosEquis · 11-27-2006, 01:57 PM

Regardless of how they are getting them, whether Iran is just "giving" it to them or selling it to them, either way they are getting some of it from Iran. Some of it was the leftovers from the original Iraqi army. Some of it is coming from Jordanian insurgent groups and some of it is also coming from Syria. Combine all of it together and there is a shit load of weapons and explosives.

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I didn't know the Iranian government was in the business of selling weapons to insurgents fighting in Iraq. Is that your new position? They funded the money on their own and bought them from a willing Iranian government?

Not sure what you're getting at? You're making assumption after assumption here with nothing tangible to back it up. If YOU think Iran is selling weapons to insurgents, by all means, show us.

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 02:01 PM

Where do all these people in Africa get guns? It's the most heavily fortified continent in small arms yet they have no money...how is this even possible? It goes to show, when people want something, they can get it...even terrorists and insurgents. I know that I saw somewhere that we didn't even seize weapons from Iraqis when we went in. So you can automatically assume all the IRAQI insurgents are armed with Iraqi equipment. I still have yet to see any proof of mass numbers of Syrian or Iranians with the insurgents. Someone just posted a link saying most of the foreigners were Saudi. Where are they getting their weapons?

JaJae · 11-27-2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Not sure what you're getting at? You're making assumption after assumption here with nothing tangible to back it up. If YOU think Iran is selling weapons to insurgents, by all means, show us.

I'm not making assumptions. I'm stating facts and asking you logical questions on those facts that you're dodging.

If you think they're not, you'll have to do better than we haven't found a pink slip yet... considering we're not in Iran. This is an open debate. You're claiming others are talking about "fiction" just because it's based on opinion and logic. Your stance is essentially "I woke up and the ground over my entire state is covered in snow, but I didn't see it snowing, therefore it's fiction to conclude the likelihood that it snowed."

JaJae · 11-27-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Where do all these people in Africa get guns? It's the most heavily fortified continent in small arms yet they have no money...how is this even possible? It goes to show, when people want something, they can get it...even terrorists and insurgents. I know that I saw somewhere that we didn't even seize weapons from Iraqis when we went in. So you can automatically assume all the IRAQI insurgents are armed with Iraqi equipment. I still have yet to see any proof of mass numbers of Syrian or Iranians with the insurgents. Someone just posted a link saying most of the foreignors were Saudi. Where are they getting their weapons?

Many of weapons from the insurgents are clearly labeled as being from the Iranian military. They must have "bought" them from the Iranian government. Are you of the position that Iran sells government weapons to any militant group who has the money? There are no militants in Iran who disapprove of their government? They have no fear in selling stockpiles of weapons to militants without any clue as to what they're going to be used for?

Donkey® · 11-27-2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae