All American soldiers are out of Iraq by tomorrow

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Many of weapons from the insurgents are clearly labeled as being from the Iranian military. They must have "bought" them from the Iranian government.

Ok, now this is tangible. Show me pictures. Links? Something?

Originally Posted by JaJae

Are you of the position that Iran sells government weapons to any militant group who has the money? There are no militants in Iran who disapprove of their government? They have no fear in selling stockpiles of weapons to militants without any clue as to what they're going to be used for?

I am in the position of "I don't know what the hell Iran does because Iran is a country and I don't work for Iran's arms department." Until I have PROOF of something, I will not make wild accusations though. On a wider scale...ALL COUNTRIES sell weapons to whomever they want.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

You do though. When their stance is based on logic and not "fiction." If you can't prove otherwise, how is your stance not fiction?

No, the "evidence" doesn't prove to what he was saying or anything you're saying. I have yet to see ANY evidence posted here. NONE. There is MY proof.

Originally Posted by JaJae

You can't prove it either way as well, but all evidence and logic points to what 7960 was saying. A lot of evidence points that OJ Simpson murdered his wife. Prove it? Oh you can't, fiction. It's the same thing. What is more probable here? The fact that we don't have an invoice slip and admission of guilt or the evidence and facts that are staring us in the face?

My proof is the fact that you guys are making all these accusations and can't back them up. If it were "logical" and if it were "evidence" I have no doubt you would serve it up. Obviously, there isn't much to go on but WILD SPECULATION.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Ok, now this is tangible. Show me pictures. Links? Something?

Rumsfeld says Iran is arming Iraqi insurgents - Nation/Politics - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper
TIME.com: Inside Iran's Secret War for Iraq -- Aug. 22, 2005 -- Page 1
Gulfnews: Iran 'gave Iraq smuggled weapons'

There are many links, I'll have to look up that show much of the new explosives are explosives that had to have come from Iran because Saddam didn't have them.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Rumsfeld says Iran is arming Iraqi insurgents - Nation/Politics - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper
TIME.com: Inside Iran's Secret War for Iraq -- Aug. 22, 2005 -- Page 1
Gulfnews: Iran 'gave Iraq smuggled weapons'

I really don't want to go through all of them if this is what they contain -


"Military sources have disclosed that there is "very, very strong intelligence" that elements inside Iran have continued to fund and support the gun-running. There is still no "concrete evidence", in part, it is claimed, because Iranian weapons are designed to be untraceable."


BTW, "ELEMENTS inside Iran" is NOT "Iranian government."

[JaJae]

CNN.com - Blair suspects Iran in Iraq blasts - Oct 6, 2005

The official said on Wednesday that "elements of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard" appeared to be involved in smuggling armor-piercing explosives and infrared control mechanisms into southern Iraq.

"What is clear is that there have been new explosive devices used, not just against British troops but elsewhere in Iraq," Blair told the news conference.

There are others that show the locations and logistics of where and when they were smuggled in. Still looking for links. I thought it was pretty well accepted that Iran was involved in supplying many of these terrorists.. I guess I was wrong.

[JaJae]

Translated from azzaman:

Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) had provided the insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq heavy weapons including anti-aircraft missiles, it emerged on Friday.

The Iraqi daily az-Zaman which is published in London and Baghdad quoted credible Iraqi sources as revealing that the IRGC had given al-Qaeda in Iraq, Strela-type SAM-7 surface-to-air missiles, modern explosives, and a large number of personnel arms including Kalashnikovs and BKC machineguns.

[Thorgrim]

That makes absolutely no sense, Al-Qaeda thinks Iranians are heretics and the Iranians helped us in Afghanistan to topple the Taliban/AlQaeda because of it...now they are giving them advanced weapons?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

CNN.com - Blair suspects Iran in Iraq blasts - Oct 6, 2005


There are others that show the locations and logistics of where and when they were smuggled in. Still looking for links. I thought it was pretty well accepted that Iran was involved in supplying many of these terrorists.. I guess I was wrong.

I have no doubt Iranians have supported insurgents in Iraq. Where my doubt is, comes where people say "Iran is doing so and so..." I don't see ANY Evidence of a plan drawn up and executed by the governments of Iran or Syria or Turkey to do anything. Have they turned a blind eye? Yes. That's about all you can prove they have done. That's all I am saying.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I really don't want to go through all of them if this is what they contain -


"Military sources have disclosed that there is "very, very strong intelligence" that elements inside Iran have continued to fund and support the gun-running. There is still no "concrete evidence", in part, it is claimed, because Iranian weapons are designed to be untraceable."


BTW, "ELEMENTS inside Iran" is NOT "Iranian government."

....the report said, adding that the weapons had all been manufactured in neighbouring Iran
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=8259

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ABC News that they have caught shipments of deadly new bombs at the Iran-Iraq border.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...1692347&page=1

Of course, later when they say the welds are the same, the serial numbers are the same, the guns are the same......that's all coincidence and doesn't prove anything and only shows that maybe possibly one gun came from iran. I mean, it could be the CIA stole a gun and copied it and is now sending them over the border from iran to implicate the iranians!! As long as we're talking what's possible, that's possible, right??

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

....the report said, adding that the weapons had all been manufactured in neighbouring Iran
Iran Focus-Weapons from Iran discovered in Iraq’s port city - Iraq - News

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ABC News that they have caught shipments of deadly new bombs at the Iran-Iraq border.
ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iraq Weapons -- Made in Iran?

Of course, later when they say the welds are the same, the serial numbers are the same, the guns are the same......that's all coincidence and doesn't prove anything and only shows that maybe possibly one gun came from iran. I mean, it could be the CIA stole a gun and copied it and is now sending them over the border from iran to implicate the iranians!! As long as we're talking what's possible, that's possible, right??

And they are using weapons made in the US and Russia too. Are you implicating them?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And they are using weapons made in the US and Russia too.

Show me pictures. Links? Something?

I am in the position of "I don't know what the hell they do because they are countries and I don't work for their arms department." Until I have PROOF of something, I will not make wild accusations though.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Until I have PROOF of something, I will not make wild accusations though. On a wider scale...ALL COUNTRIES sell weapons to whomever they want.

So you concede that much of the insurgents are Iranian crossing the border. You also concede that "ALL COUNTRIES sell weapons to whomever they want." But it's a "wild accusation" to say that the Iranian military weapons and explosives the Iranian militants are using came from their government/military?

[MoTaVa]

I have friends that have been to Iraq for consecutive tours and they tell me about russian and chinese weapons and iranian and syrian ids and uniforms. all kinds of stuff. africans, asians, suadis, brits, americans and more have all been captured and/or killed as hostile forces in this war.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

So you concede that much of the insurgents are Iranian crossing the border. You also concede that "ALL COUNTRIES sell weapons to whomever they want." But it's a "wild accusation" to say that the Iranian military weapons and explosives the Iranian militants are using came from their government/military?

If i were a gun-runner, unrelated to any government, I'd go through Syria or Iran

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

So you concede that much of the insurgents are Iranian crossing the border. You also concede that "ALL COUNTRIES sell weapons to whomever they want." But it's a "wild accusation" to say that the Iranian military weapons and explosives the Iranian militants are using came from their government/military?

I haven't conceded that at all. What are you talking about? Most of the insurgents are Iraqi. Most of the foreign insurgents are apparently Saudi (based on link in this thread.) There are weapons made in MANY countries that are being used in Iraq. Just because some MAY be Iraninan doesn't mean the Iranian government put them there. There are AK 47s. Are you implicating China or Russia?