When are men going to grow a fucking backbone

[hsmith]

FOXNews.com - Segregating Children From Men

Segregating Children From Men
Tuesday , November 21, 2006
By Wendy McElroy
get_a(300,250,"frame1"); Frances Kemp booked an aisle seat on a recent British Airways (BA) flight because she had a bad leg that required extra space. Her 76-year-old husband Michael occupied the middle seat. A nine-year-old girl took the window position.


When a stewardess asked Frances to switch seats with her husband, she declined. The stewardess explained that the seating arrangement breached the airline's child-welfare regulations and moved the child.


Michael is a retired journalist with no criminal record; he made no contact physical or verbal with the girl; no complaint or request to move was received; the child's mother was elsewhere on the plane. The girl's welfare was deemed to be in peril solely because Michael was male.


BA has openly joined the ranks of airlines such as Air New Zealand and Qantas that view all men as a danger to children. It is difficult to know how many other airliners share this policy as it is rarely announced and can be enforced invisibly when seats are booked.


Indeed, BA itself has been quietly instituting the policy since at least 2001 when another 'seat rearrangement' drew attention. In answering a complaint from the humiliated man, BA explained, "We introduced the policy . . . in response to customers asking us to make sure their children are not seated next to men. We were responding to a fear of sexual assaults."


It is not clear why parental worries cannot be resolved by carefully booking seats in advance or notifying attendants of a need to be extra watchful. But one thing is clear: some airlines are going to treat your father, husband and son as sex offenders simply because they are male.
And the airlines show no sign of relenting.


For example, in 2005, Mark Worsley had to change seats when a Qantas steward informed him that only women could sit next to unaccompanied children. When he registered a complaint, a Qantas spokesperson replied that the airline intended "to err on the side of caution" by continuing to act as though all men were dangerous.


More recently and in the UK, Boris Johnson, a Member of Parliament, was asked to move from his seat by a BA stewardess. She retreated when he explained that the adjacent children were his own progeny. Johnson memorialized the experience in an article entitled "Come off it, folks: how many paedophiles can there be?"


If an airline restricted the seating of blacks because the 2004 Department of Justice data states "blacks [are] disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders", there would be a backlash of rage. It would make no difference that the parent or loved one of a white passenger had requested the "safety" measure.


But, over the course of decades, Western culture has so thoroughly identified maleness itself with violence and abuse that major airlines feel free to openly treat them as predators.


In response to the Qantas incident, Worsley stated, "Men are being demonized in the media for a long time now. I think probably this is just society's reaction -- they think, 'We'd better start tightening up on everything.' It's getting to the stage when all men are viewed with distrust."


The airlines' policy is rooted neither in fact nor common sense. There doesn't appear to be any hard data or statistics to support the notion that children seated next to men aboard an airline flight are in any particular risk of being sexual assaulted.


Moreover, it is difficult to believe that in-flight child molestation is a real problem. A plane is not a secluded spot in the woods; it is an extremely public place where attendants and others constantly patrolling the aisles.


Nevertheless, if a problem does exist, if there is more to the policy than parents concerned about things that haven't occurred, then it would make sense to ban unattended children or to seat them in a separate section.
As it stands, the policy seems rooted in little more than a dangerous tendency to paint men per se as predators.


Why is the tendency dangerous and not merely insulting? Because men are becoming increasingly reluctant to help a child in need, to act as teachers and caregivers, or to offer protection.


A heartbreaking example of the consequences of their understandable reluctance occurred in England in late 2002. 2-year-old Abigail Rae died by drowning in a village pond; a man who saw her in the street earlier on had wanted to help but he had been afraid of being labeled "a pervert."


The policy harms children in a more subtle manner; they may no longer trust men per se enough to ask for help when they need it. They may hesitate to approach a policeman or fireman who are, after all, still men. That is the message airlines are sending to children. And how is that message being heard by the boys who will grow into men?


Seating men as though they were sexual predators is a vicious and discriminatory practice that has no basis in fact or logic. Indeed, if the illogic of the policy were consistently spun out, it would mean "women and children only" flights and the restricted seating of men at theaters or concerts.


Stop segregating children from men!
Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century" (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.

Bullshit such as this, women instanlty saying men sexually abuse their children when a divorce starts, all the TV shows on pedophiles do nothing but paint ALL men in a bad light. The dwindling number of men as teachers, the dwindling number of male coaches ALL are a direct result of the tarnishing of mens names as a collective by a select few in soceity. Yes, there are bad people but this is getting out of hand. The fact that even the simple accusation of wrong doing ruins lives and careers is proof enough that men need to stand up for themselves.

but then again, this is all a direct result of the feminist movement going beyond getting women rights, it is going into taking rights from men.

[hsmith]

and teh other story included within that article:

FOXNews.com - Did Pedophilia Hysteria Cause Child's Death? - Blog | Blogs | Popular Blogs | Video Blogs

On Nov. 28, 2002, 2-year-old Abigail Rae died by drowning in a village pond in England. Her death is currently stirring debate because the ongoing inquest revealed an explosive fact. A man passing by was afraid to guide the lost child to safety because he feared being labeled "a pervert."

In the article "Day of the dad: paedophilia hysteria leaves men afraid to help," The Telegraph raises a question that applies equally to North America. Have high profile cases of pedophilia created such public hysteria that the average decent human being, especially a man, is now reluctant to approach a child in need?

Consider what happened to Abby. The toddler wandered from her nursery school, Ready Teddy Go, through a door left open. A bricklayer named Clive Peachey drove past her in his truck. At the inquest, he stated, "I kept thinking I should go back. The reason I didn't was because I thought people might think I was trying to abduct her."

Instead, he assured himself that the parents must be "driving around" and would find her.

A few minutes thereafter, Abby fatally fell into an algae-covered pond. Meanwhile, the nursery staff searched. When the mother noticed the staff near her home, she was told they were looking for a "lost dog" but the truth soon emerged. The frantic mother's search ended when she leaped into the pond to fish out what she thought was Abby's shoe.

(Story continues below)

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She stated, "As I grabbed for the shoe, I missed and was shocked to touch what felt like a leg. I pulled the leg upwards." The dead child emerged.

Abby's case may be extreme but it hinges on a question that commonly confronts everyone who interacts with other people's children. Is it possible to touch a child in a non-abusive manner without risking terrible repercussions?

Before moving to this question, however, it is necessary to consider a related issue that arises in almost every discussions of Abby. Is Clive Peachey legally or morally responsible for her death?

For several reasons, I argue that he is not. First and foremost, the responsibility lies with the nursery staff who became her guardians. Abby was in no immediate danger when Peachey saw her and he contacted the police upon later hearing a 'missing child' report.

Arguably, if he had phoned the police immediately, Abby would have been dead long before they arrived. Moreover, by coming forth, Peachey has accepted the damage to his life that comes with the public disgrace of saying "I drove past her."

Important information in judging Peachey is missing. For example, if Peachey has a family, he may have been reluctant to place his reputation or livelihood at risk. He may have balanced possible harm to his own children against helping a stranger's child.

Peachey's fears have precedence on this side of the Atlantic.

Last summer, an Illinois man lost an appeal on his conviction as a sex offender for grabbing the arm of a 14-year-old girl. She had stepped directly in front of his car, causing him to swerve in order to avoid hitting her.

The 28-year-old Fitzroy Barnaby jumped out his car, grabbed her arm and lectured her on how not to get killed. Nothing more occurred. Nevertheless, that one action made him guilty of "the unlawful restraint of a minor," which is a sexual offense in Illinois. Both the jury and judge believed him. Nevertheless, Barnaby went through years of legal proceedings that ended with his name on a sex offender registry, where his photograph and address are publicly available. He must report to authorities. His employment options are severely limited; he cannot live near schools or parks.

Arguably, the law would have punished Barnaby less had he hit the girl or not cared enough to lecture her. Perhaps that's the equation that ran through Peachey's mind.

Again, Barnaby is an extreme case. But ordinary people make decisions on how to interact with children based on such high profile stories.

The effect on average people in non-extreme situations can be partially gauged through a study conducted by Dr. Heather Piper at Manchester Metropolitan University: "The Problematics of 'Touching' Between Children and Professionals." Piper examined six case-study schools through interviews with teachers, parents and children regarding the propriety of touch.

Commentator Josie Appleton reviewed the study, "Reported cases include the teacher who avoided putting a plaster [bandaid] on a child's scraped leg; nursery staff calling a child's mother every time he needed to go to the toilet; a male gym teacher leaving a girl injured in the hall while he waited for a female colleague."

One school reportedly kept an account of every 'touching incident.' They stated, "We write down a short account and date it and put which staff were present and at what time, we then explain it to the parent and ask them to read and sign it."

Appleton observed that this is more in keeping with "police logs than teaching children."

The last words encapsulate the problem.

Touching a child, even to render medical assistance, has become a potential police matter.

Child abuse must be addressed but it is worse than folly to punish those who help children. Our society is creating Clive Peachey -- decent men who will walk away from a child in need.

Abby Rae died not only from drowning but also from bad politics.

Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century" (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.

man didn't save girl because he was worried he would be labeled as a pedophile for doing so. what has this world come to.

[6SpeedTA95]

Well said man!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this anti male stigma is bullshit. I can't stand it and can you imagine the outcry if an airmartial had asked a "muslim" to change seats? Holy civil rights violation, holy human rights group circle jerk. But because its a normal guy, no such thing, nothing, just the usual free pass this type of bullshit gets in all media outlets.

[7960]

On Nov. 28, 2002, 2-year-old Abigail Rae died by drowning in a village pond in England. Her death is currently stirring debate because the ongoing inquest revealed an explosive fact. A man passing by was afraid to guide the lost child to safety because he feared being labeled "a pervert."

I can totally understand his fear. I volunteer in my son's school (2nd grade now) and kids approach me in the mall......my first reaction is "where is your parent?" Why? Because being a work-from-home dad I've taken my kids plenty of places and been looked at like a pervert for being the only dad there. More than once I've had a mom come over to me at the park and ask "why are you here?" or "where is your child?" I'm torn....do I answer by identifying my kid(s) and making them feel at ease or do I go on a rant and accuse them of being ignorant and have them call the cops? You can be 100% right and still have a situation turn bad quickly.

[lew]

I love watching EVERY SINGLE sitcom on television where men are idiots and women are geniuses.

[ballz2wallz]

The feminization of America has gone too far...men don't even know what men are supposed to act like.

[Galactic Gigolo]

Originally Posted by 7960

I can totally understand his fear. I volunteer in my son's school (2nd grade now) and kids approach me in the mall......my first reaction is "where is your parent?" Why? Because being a work-from-home dad I've taken my kids plenty of places and been looked at like a pervert for being the only dad there. More than once I've had a mom come over to me at the park and ask "why are you here?" or "where is your child?" I'm torn....do I answer by identifying my kid(s) and making them feel at ease or do I go on a rant and accuse them of being ignorant and have them call the cops?

"I'm your park, molesting your childrenz" seems appropriate.

[Diamond Cross]

Jusst stay away from children and you'll be safe.

Supposedly.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Well said man!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this anti male stigma is bullshit. I can't stand it and can you imagine the outcry if an airmartial had asked a "muslim" to change seats? Holy civil rights violation, holy human rights group circle jerk. But because its a normal guy, no such thing, nothing, just the usual free pass this type of bullshit gets in all media outlets.

You mean like the young Muslim who was asked to show his ID when using college campus computers (As was well known school policy) and threw a shit fit protest!

[7th Ninjai]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Bullshit such as this, women instanlty saying men sexually abuse their children when a divorce starts

This is exactly what happened to a guy I've come to know well over the past year. He went through a divorce with his first wife within the past 3 years. I don't know the details of why their marriaged ended, but I do know that this guy is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life. Totally selfless.

The mother managed to convince their 5 year old daughter to tell authorities that her father touched his daughter's ass inappropriately when she was a baby. A baby. The mother did this because she wanted to squeeze the guy for more money per month while denying him rightful custodial access to his daughter. One day, out of the blue, the cops showed up at work and arrested this guy based on the daughter's and mother's testimony. The guy admitted that he HAD touched his daughter's ass many times over when changing diapers, etc AS ALL FATHERS DO but had done nothing otherwise inappropriate. The fact that he admitted to touching was enough for authorities to continue to pursue the case.

So, my friend was left with a choice. With alimony and child support due every month, does he risk his white collar job (which also puts food on the table for his new family) and felony jailtime to clear his name of a trumped up child molestation charge OR does he take a plea agreement on a lighter charge of sexual battery, keep his job, and not go to jail? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to determine the best decision in this circumstance, but it is absolutely pathetic that this was the choice he had to make (what choice, really?).

He's now a registered sex offender, has to report nearly every movement he makes to the state, and now faces legislation that makes it illegal to live within 1000 yards of a bus stop, church, or any other place children congregate. There's also a new sex offender bill proposed in the GA Senate which would make it illegal for any sex offender to take a picture of someone under the age of 18. Soon, this guy may not even be able to take pictures of his two sons he has from his new marriage!! How fucking illogical is it for someone to have kids under their roof, but they can't take pictures of them???

I don't expect any of you to take my word for this, but I know in my heart that there is no way this guy did what he was accused of. It makes me sick when I think about how his ex-wife ruined the rest of his life because she's bitter over their divorce.

I know this is going to take the thread off topic a bit, but overzealous sex offender legislation really pisses me off. A little over a year ago, an 18 year old kid in Rome, GA was recently sentenced to 10 years in prison for having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend (think, senior and freshman in high school). In addition, he will be labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life and be subject to bullshit sex offender legislation (like living with 1000 yards of a school). This kid refused to take a plea agreement out of principle although everyone (including the judge) begged him to.

Our puritan, feminist society revolts me. It is disgusting that we are more accepting of brutal violence on cable tv than we are of our own bodies and natural acts.

[IminWonderland]

Some women make me very sad.

I think it's sad that today, Mothers feel the need to do that to the Father's of their Children, and feel the need to accuse every man of being a pervert. I think it's sad that it's gotten hyped and taken that far.

I know alot of mothers who feel that way about ment, that they constantly question men that they don't know in regards to their motives, and that they feel on guard ALL the time because if they don't and something happens, usually the first question is "Where was the mother?" and no Mother wants to go through the years of self torture and blame because they could have done something, but didn't, and the results didn't come out how they want.

Personally, I go with my gut. But, all in all, I look out for my kid, and it's not meant to the detriment of men as a whole.

It's sad because men as a whole, they are wonderful, and they aren't the perverted a-holes that news make them out to be when they report on a molestation or child rape, and they aren't retarded as Hollywood clearly aims to make them.

Some sitcoms I can't watch because I don't like seeing Husbands torn down all the time like that. I don't want my son to feel that being a Husband is Less than, or that being a Dad isn't as good as being a mom.

But, I wouldn't worry too much guys. The feminization is starting to turn back again, and more women are taking on more traditional feelings about the man/woman relationship....

Maybe it's just a phase and you'll get us shut up in the kitchen again...

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 7960

I can totally understand his fear. I volunteer in my son's school (2nd grade now) and kids approach me in the mall......my first reaction is "where is your parent?" Why? Because being a work-from-home dad I've taken my kids plenty of places and been looked at like a pervert for being the only dad there. More than once I've had a mom come over to me at the park and ask "why are you here?" or "where is your child?" I'm torn....do I answer by identifying my kid(s) and making them feel at ease or do I go on a rant and accuse them of being ignorant and have them call the cops? You can be 100% right and still have a situation turn bad quickly.

I can understand the frustration, but I can also understand the women. I can't tell you how many times these smiling perverts would accost me as a little kid and try to lure me into a bathroom. Luckily nothing happened, and it was only when I got older that I realized what they were trying to do. But I'm left with the impression that there are SHITLOADS of child predators out there, way more than people would like to believe. It's like those Dateline shows...everyone is shocked when everyone and their brother shows up to fuck the 13 year old boy, even otherwise "respectable" people.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I can understand the frustration, but I can also understand the women. I can't tell you how many times these smiling perverts would accost me as a little kid and try to lure me into a bathroom. Luckily nothing happened, and it was only when I got older that I realized what they were trying to do. But I'm left with the impression that there are SHITLOADS of child predators out there, way more than people would like to believe. It's like those Dateline shows...everyone is shocked when everyone and their brother shows up to fuck the 13 year old boy, even otherwise "respectable" people.

Totally, it's scary being a parent. Because when you watch the news, you hear about a neighbor, and uncle, a stranger, some guy no one suspected of being that kind of person, and as a parent, you don't want to let your guard down that ONE time, and have it be for the wrong person. It's not an unwarranted fear anymore, especially when we are told by law enforcement amongst other sources that we can't let our kids out of our sight, and if they have to be, we have to go to extreme lengths to protect them.

It's sad it's gotten like that...

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by 7960

I can totally understand his fear. I volunteer in my son's school (2nd grade now) and kids approach me in the mall......my first reaction is "where is your parent?" Why? Because being a work-from-home dad I've taken my kids plenty of places and been looked at like a pervert for being the only dad there. More than once I've had a mom come over to me at the park and ask "why are you here?" or "where is your child?" I'm torn....do I answer by identifying my kid(s) and making them feel at ease or do I go on a rant and accuse them of being ignorant and have them call the cops? You can be 100% right and still have a situation turn bad quickly.

wow I never thought of that, but I can see where people would do that nowadays.

[lew]

Reminds me of the south park episode where the parents kick the kids out of town for fear that they'll molest them.

[hsmith]

god this thread is depressing

and i would doubt 7th's story for a second, or 7960's.

it is ashamed what we have allowed soceity to become

why aren't these monsters that commit the crimes put away forever so we can get rid of these problems? why is that not the solution instead of locking every man up within society!

[avsp]

So, what do we have here?

An outbreak of vague anger at the inequity of moving from the general to the particular because of publics profiling at the supposedly statistically accurate perception that men commit sex crimes against children

Seems fair enough

But no mention of state profiling of 'muslim' looking people at airports? Nor even any speculation on what it must be like to be a member of a minority race

Strange?, ..., I think so.