Intelligent Design? - Page 8

Rouger2 · 02-23-2007, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Then who created the creator if it can't happen by itself?

Don't know but I know life could not have happened by itself, and then by itself evolve into a human being.

JSmythe · 02-23-2007, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Don't know but I know life could not have happened by itself

What we have here is a classic delusional belief. These beliefs are usually held in order to reduce the cognitive dissonance created by holding a particularly deeply rooted mindset that does not match with reality. This mindset is called religion, and in the case of ID: Christianity.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-23-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

I never said the creator was a god of any sort.

Yes, actually you did.

He could have been a spaceman that came here on a flying saucer, but I doubt it.

If it were a "spaceman" then the spaceman would have to be life, and therefore, the spaceman would have to have spawned from life, and the evolutionary process of that particular spaceman would have to have some origin, and that origin couldn't be "nature" because you don't believe that life could "spawn on its own." Hence, you most certainly believe it was a deity. Don't try to be so intellectually sneaky.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-23-2007, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

I have already given my reason for believing that life could not have happen by itself.

Your belief is ill-founded.

Scrum · 02-23-2007, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Don't know but I know life could not have happened by itself, and then by itself evolve into a human being.

Then they must have had a creator right? Since you have stated yet again that it's impossible for life to come about on its own.

Rouger2 · 02-25-2007, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Then they must have had a creator right? Since you have stated yet again that it's impossible for life to come about on its own.

Yea that is as far as I go. A creator thats is all I can say. Saying I believe any religions god is real is going beyond what I have said.

Rouger2 · 02-25-2007, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Then they must have had a creator right? Since you have stated yet again that it's impossible for life to come about on its own.

Creator yes but I have never said there has to be any religions god.

Scrum · 02-25-2007, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Yea that is as far as I go. A creator thats is all I can say. Saying I believe any religions god is real is going beyond what I have said.

So you believe that life cannot develop on its own and that our creator must have had a creator. This will go back for infinity?

There must be some kind of "magic" at some point to make an intelligence right?

Rouger2 · 02-25-2007, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Yes, actually you did.

If it were a "spaceman" then the spaceman would have to be life, and therefore, the spaceman would have to have spawned from life, and the evolutionary process of that particular spaceman would have to have some origin, and that origin couldn't be "nature" because you don't believe that life could "spawn on its own." Hence, you most certainly believe it was a deity. Don't try to be so intellectually sneaky.

I believe in a deity is going beyond what I have said. I think that would bring religion into it and I just say we were created by some thing. I agree that the creator must be life and he came from life.

Rouger2 · 02-25-2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by JSmythe

What we have here is a classic delusional belief. These beliefs are usually held in order to reduce the cognitive dissonance created by holding a particularly deeply rooted mindset that does not match with reality. This mindset is called religion, and in the case of ID: Christianity.

Yea, I'm a christian, but I've not tried to prove Christianity's god. Just that we were created and not evolved from a bowl of mud soup to complex human beings that have brains that would take a computer 20 miles to duplicate. For this to happen by itself is beyond belief.

Kytro · 02-25-2007, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Yea, I'm a christian, but I've not tried to prove Christianity's god. Just that we were created and not evolved from a bowl of mud soup to complex human beings that have brains that would take a computer 20 miles to duplicate. For this to happen by itself is beyond belief.

It is just beyond your experience, that does not mean it isn't possible.

Regardless of how tempting it is, it simply isn't possible to apply "common sense" to time frames of billions of years.

ballz2wallz · 02-25-2007, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

It is just beyond your experience, that does not mean it isn't possible.

This idea may also apply to your inability to understand the beliefs of others.

Kytro · 02-25-2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

This idea may also apply to your inability to understand the beliefs of others.

While I do take my time to look at as many viewpoints as possible I am the first to admit that there are things I do not understand.

I was raised religious, so I certainly have some exposure to religious viewpoints, though that is not all that relevant to this situation.

I have some understanding the basis of why some people believe in ID or similar concepts I simply dispute the validity of the reasoning in most cases. I reject the concept of personal experience as valid evidence in and of itself.

Basically, I try to question my beliefs as to ensure I have covered as many viewpoints as possible. Personal experience is fine for most day to day decision making though I dispute it's accuracy in things.

JSmythe · 02-26-2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Yea, I'm a christian, but I've not tried to prove Christianity's god. Just that we were created and not evolved from a bowl of mud soup to complex human beings that have brains that would take a computer 20 miles to duplicate. For this to happen by itself is beyond belief.

its beyond belief because you refuse to consider the evidence... and i guess you can't really comprehend just how long "billions of years" is

Rouger2 · 02-26-2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

It is just beyond your experience, that does not mean it isn't possible.

Regardless of how tempting it is, it simply isn't possible to apply "common sense" to time frames of billions of years.

Well I know billions of years is a long time and I am not really sure that it is billions of years maybe millions of years, but either way it is hell of a long time. I think that I can form my own theory from my knowledge and knowing some of the greatest scientist in the world have not been able to create life. I don't know how many years their knowledge and the hundreds of years of knowledge they stand on, can make up for, maybe not millions of years but a bunch. A theory leaves room for the possibility of it happening by itself but most of the logic is on the other side.

Rouger2 · 02-26-2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by JSmythe

its beyond belief because you refuse to consider the evidence... and i guess you can't really comprehend just how long "billions of years" is

I don't think there is any evidense that life could happen by itself. Scientist cannot even do it in a laboratory. Can't comprehend billion's of years but what I can comprehend or anyone else is that it is impossible with what we know right now.

Jas0n · 02-26-2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Well I know billions of years is a long time and I am not really sure that it is billions of years maybe millions of years, but either way it is hell of a long time. I think that I can form my own theory from my knowledge and knowing some of the greatest scientist in the world have not been able to create life. I don't know how many years their knowledge and the hundreds of years of knowledge they stand on, can make up for, maybe not millions of years but a bunch. A theory leaves room for the possibility of it happening by itself but most of the logic is on the other side.

Keep in mind that a hundred years ago -- the blink of an eye -- the greatest scientists in the world couldn't make a pocket calculator, either.

Simius · 02-26-2007, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Well I know billions of years is a long time and I am not really sure that it is billions of years maybe millions of years, but either way it is hell of a long time. I think that I can form my own theory from my knowledge and knowing some of the greatest scientist in the world have not been able to create life. I don't know how many years their knowledge and the hundreds of years of knowledge they stand on, can make up for, maybe not millions of years but a bunch. A theory leaves room for the possibility of it happening by itself but most of the logic is on the other side.

Nope, scientists can't make life from scratch right now. That doesn't mean it can't be done however. I'd also like to point out that scientists can't form a star in a laboratory. That doesn't mean we should say "Hey if we can't make life, evolution isn't real. Hey if we can't form stars, solar radiation isn't real." You know what I'm saying?

Dumpy Dooby · 02-26-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

I believe in a deity is going beyond what I have said. I think that would bring religion into it and I just say we were created by some thing. I agree that the creator must be life and he came from life.

We couldn't have formed naturally, so we came from some sort of creator. The creator must have come from something, and that something could not have been anything supernatural, right? Or could it have? You're left with deciding whether or not our creator came from something natural or supernatural. Regardless of which one you believe, you're suggesting that you believe that there's something preventing us to have formed in the same in manner in which our creator was formed. Unless you can furnish some sort of evidence for that view, your sneaky little side-step diversive tactic is a psychological fallacy known as special pleading.

thomez · 02-27-2007, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Yea, I'm a christian, but I've not tried to prove Christianity's god. Just that we were created and not evolved from a bowl of mud soup to complex human beings that have brains that would take a computer 20 miles to duplicate. For this to happen by itself is beyond belief.

don't ever say that again until you read this book

Amazon.com: The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design: Books: Richard Dawkins

thanks and have a nice day