ABC News EXCLUSIVE: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militia

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm not sure, but from what I hear from people over there the everyday Mohammed-on-the-street loves the americans being there. Salvaging the situation is going to have to include the citizens and is going to take a while. I'm not sure any US politician (who wants to get re-elected, anyway) is going to commit to being there 20 years to protect their borders to allow iraqis to figure it out for themselves while so many americans are pissed that we're not protecting our own from the insurgents from our south.

So what is your exact plan for salvaging victory?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Foreign Arms?

Foreign Training?

Foreign Insurgent Fighters?

Can you say CIVIL WAR?

Yeah, there's never been a civil war before that had foreign weapons supplied to one of the factions..

Weapons != fighters .. most of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi, foreign insurgents and Al Qaeda are the minority. That's been a simple fact for quite awhile.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So what is your exact plan for salvaging victory?

I believe my post started with "I'm not sure, but...." and included "Salvaging the situation is going to have to include the citizens and is going to take a while..." and "... (be) there 20 years to protect their borders to allow iraqis to figure it out for themselves."

If you can't get from that reply that I'm not exactly sure but I believe salvaging the situation is going to have to include the citizens and is going to take a while, like 20 years of protecting their borders while they figure it out for themselves then I'm not sure how I can help you.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, there's never been a civil war before that had foreign weapons supplied to one of the factions..

Weapons != fighters .. most of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi, foreign insurgents and Al Qaeda are the minority. That's been a simple fact for quite awhile.

theres seems to be a theory floating around here that the "sectarian fighting" is actually sunni alqaedas fighting iranian revolutionary guards or other iranian agents...yet somehow Iran is funding both its soldiers and the people its trying to kill

It doesn't make any sense, but like Saddam-911 link showed, if you put up enough noise people who aren't following closely will believe you actually have something intelligent to say

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 7960

I believe my post started with "I'm not sure, but...." and included "Salvaging the situation is going to have to include the citizens and is going to take a while..." and "... (be) there 20 years to protect their borders to allow iraqis to figure it out for themselves."

If you can't get from that reply that I'm not exactly sure but I believe salvaging the situation is going to have to include the citizens and is going to take a while, like 20 years of protecting their borders while they figure it out for themselves then I'm not sure how I can help you.

You said we can salvage, I didn't see a plan from your post, so let me continue:

Protecting the borders for 20 years is your plan, while pushing iraqis to work together in harmony

How do we protect such a large border when gun runners can go not just through Iran, Syria, but Saudi Arabia/Jordan maybe even Turkey

And how would trying to get Iraqis work together be different than what we've been doing the past year?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Fire one!
Fire two!

And I'm going to say them posting back-to-back gives me strike three!!

Maybe my previous post shouldn't have been deleted



Oh, and just for giggles

"There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.

ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militia

oh, but wait........
andand

One ABC article != proof. Come on now...you can do better than that.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

One ABC article != proof. Come on now...you can do better than that.

Of course not... that one ABC article consists of research done by ABC *and* quotes more than one official who verified the information, though. Come on now... you can do better than that.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, there's never been a civil war before that had foreign weapons supplied to one of the factions..

Weapons != fighters .. most of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi, foreign insurgents and Al Qaeda are the minority. That's been a simple fact for quite awhile.

When you train people and move your own over a border yes. You deny this?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

One ABC article != proof. Come on now...you can do better than that.

If it was daming to Bush it would be the liberal Golden Calf!

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

If it was daming to Bush it would be the liberal Golden Calf!

If it was daming to Bush it would be "liberal media terrorists".

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Of course not... that one ABC article consists of research done by ABC *and* quotes more than one official who verified the information, though. Come on now... you can do better than that.

Keep living in your dreamworld. Does the high useage of the AK 47 mean that China or Russia is fucking around in Iraq? Who cares where weapons are made? It only matters who is using them...Iraqis.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Who cares where weapons are made? It only matters who is using them...Iraqis.

It doesn't matter you that Iran is funding and sponsoring terrorism against American troops and killing Iraqis? Why does everyone care so deeply when America supported bad people decades ago, but turn a blind eye to others doing it to us now? It's a double standard. Iran is supplying militant groups with weapons so they can kill Americans and people actually say "who cares"...

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It doesn't matter you that Iran is funding and sponsoring terrorism against American troops and killing Iraqis? Why does everyone care so deeply when America supported bad people decades ago, but turn a blind eye to others doing it to us now? It's a double standard. Iran is supplying militant groups with weapons so they can kill Americans and people actually say "who cares"...

"Militant" groups. They are only "militant" because we invaded their country. They are only attacking us because we are in their country. Even IF Iran is doing all these things you guys are trying to say they are...they have more of a right to fuck around in a country right next door to them than we have the right to fuck around with a country on the otherside of the world.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

"Militant" groups. They are only "militant" because we invaded their country. They are only attacking us because we are in their country.

Attempting to justify the reasons the militant groups are killing us doesn't make it ok in my book for Iran to be supportive of them doing so. Regardless of why they are our enemy, and regardless of whether I agree with their cause or ours, I definitely "care" whether or not nations like Iran are supplying and aiding them.

Even IF Iran is doing all these things you guys are trying to say they are...they have more of a right to fuck around in a country right next door to them than we have the right to fuck around with a country on the otherside of the world.

Not us, our military and the basically the world media and intelligence groups are saying they are. We're just accepting what they're saying based on the abundance of evidence drawn from recent events. And whether or not Iran has the "right" to fuck around with American and Iraqi lives doesn't negate the fact that I "care" whether or not they're aiding militant groups and helping them kill Americans.

[Thorgrim]

How are militia groups terrorists when we obey their orders?

Al Sadr says get out of Sadr City, the US military obeys

We have yet to confront the Badr Corp in any major military operation

Those are the two big shia militia groups...why are they automatically "terrorists"

Many people join to protect their family from Sunni insurgents, if Iran wants to arm the Shia to protect themselves...who are we to judge them?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

How are militia groups terrorists when we obey their orders?

Al Sadr says get out of Sadr City, the US military obeys

We have yet to confront the Badr Corp in any major military operation

Those are the two big shia militia groups...why are they automatically "terrorists"

Many people join to protect their family from Sunni insurgents, if Iran wants to arm the Shia to protect themselves...who are we to judge them?

People don't need anti-tank weapons and such to "protect" themselves from Sunnis. Iranian weapons are in the hands of terrorists and people killing Americans. I have a problem with a country like Iran supplying people with arms that are being used in the killing of Americans.

I don't feel sorry for their cause, especially when they're receiving weapons from a country like Iran to kill Americans. And the multitude of spun reasons one can suggest these weapons were purchased or simply received doesn't change the fact that Iran gave them to them. I personally have a problem with Iran fostering the internal conflict, aiding in killing Americans and sabotaging our war effort in Iraq.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

People don't need anti-tank weapons and such to "protect" themselves from Sunnis. Iranian weapons are in the hands of terrorists and people killing Americans. I have a problem with a country like Iran supplying people with arms that are being used in the killing of Americans.

Two sides to that coin though.

We give weapons to people who use them on others and many americans complain when we are held responsible for it.

Originally Posted by JaJae

I don't feel sorry for their cause, especially when they're receiving weapons from a country like Iran to kill Americans. And the multitude of spun reasons one can suggest these weapons were purchased or simply received doesn't change the fact that Iran gave them to them. I personally have a problem with Iran fostering the internal conflict, aiding in killing Americans and sabotaging our war effort in Iraq.

If we would have done the job right, this wouldn't even be a problem. Now it's blown up in our face and Iran is the savior in Iraq.

Hearts and minds.....

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

People don't need anti-tank weapons and such to "protect" themselves from Sunnis. Iranian weapons are in the hands of terrorists and people killing Americans. I have a problem with a country like Iran supplying people with arms that are being used in the killing of Americans.

I don't feel sorry for their cause, especially when they're receiving weapons from a country like Iran to kill Americans. And the multitude of spun reasons one can suggest these weapons were purchased or simply received doesn't change the fact that Iran gave them to them. I personally have a problem with Iran fostering the internal conflict, aiding in killing Americans and sabotaging our war effort in Iraq.

thats speculation

there are many iranian back militias that do not engage US forces, infact they have a direct role in the US-propped up government

if we were to withdraw tommorow, I'd put my money on the Sunnis cleaning the Shia's clocks, they are full of experienced republican guard while the Shia militias seem to comprised of a lot of rabble with AK47s

It's in Iran's interest to make sure the Sunni Baathists don't reconquer southern Iraq

Al-Sistani realized he couldn't hold back civil war, why should Iran think differently?

[Diamond Cross]

Because Iran's funding it. all they have to do is stop funding it.