FBI's top counter-terrorists lacked basic knowledge about terrorists

Thorgrim · 12-04-2006, 08:41 PM

Terrorism 101
Dale Watson, now retired, was the FBI's top counterterrorism official before and after 9/11.

In a deposition taken on Dec. 8, 2004, Youssef’s lawyer Stephen Kohn asked Watson: “Do you know who Osama bin Laden's spiritual leader was?"

Watson: Can't recall.

Lawyer: And do you know the differences in the religion between Shiite and Sunni Muslims?

Watson: Not technically, no.

John Lewis was until recently the FBI’s deputy assistant director of counterterrorism. During his deposition on May 17, 2005, he was asked if he knew the difference between Shiites and Sunnis.

Lewis: You know, generally. Not very well.

Lawyer: Was there any relationship between the first World Trade Center bombing and the 9/11 attacks?

Lewis: I'm aware of no immediate relationship other than all emanates out of the Middle East, al-Qaida linkage, I believe. Not something I've studied recently that I'm conversant with.

Counterterrorism experts say such apparent ignorance of the enemy is alarming.

“Not knowing these basic tenets is symptomatic of a lack of deep knowledge about your principal adversary, and that is unacceptable," says Michael Sheehan, an NBC News terrorism analyst.

Is the FBI doing its best to combat terrorism? - Lisa Myers & the NBC Investigative Unit - MSNBC.com

The more and more I hear stories like this, the less I think anyone should believe the stuff about Bush getting credit for us not being attacked in 5 years

GOP control since 9/11, and this is what we get? Real terror warriors...

RMNIXON · 12-04-2006, 10:25 PM

I think it is clearly the CIA that has the overseas experts. But the FBI must handle domestic activity. This is why the lack of "shared" intelligence was such a problem and was the first thing we needed to fix post 9/11! This guy does appear to be rather "out of the loop" even in 2004!

Other than your cheap shot I think this is very revealing of a very old problem going back beyond any party administration. The FBI works for the Justice Department, not the GOP. I don't recall anyone but Director being a political appointment?

Thorgrim · 12-04-2006, 11:40 PM

The Congress and WH can pass laws to change the FBI, the president can make executive decisions, etc

And please, this is terrorism 101, not advanced islamic theology, they teach this stuff in junior high (or my cousin is a nerd)

Phantom · 12-05-2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The FBI works for the Justice Department, not the GOP. I don't recall anyone but Director being a political appointment?

I believe the director is the only political appointee.

This guy also happens to have been placed in his glorious position while the FBI was under the control of the most honorable Louis Freeh (who we all know was appointed to director of the FBI by President Clinton)

Originally Posted by wikipedia

In 1999 Watson was promoted to be the first Assistant Director of the newly formed Counter-terrorism Division at FBI Headquarters by FBI director Louis Freeh. In December 2001 Watson was named Executive Assistant Director for Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence.

[Freeh was director from 93 until 2001]

Shall we all together now blame those Democrats for putting this incompetent guy in charge?

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 12:36 PM

Too bad Freeh hates Clinton with the passion of 1000x white suns and uses every chance he has to slam him

Diamond Cross · 12-05-2006, 08:31 PM

Irrelevant.

And non-credible.

Scrum · 12-05-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Irrelevant.

And non-credible.

Anything to back that up?

JaJae · 12-05-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

Shall we all together now blame those Democrats for putting this incompetent guy in charge?

I was just gonna say that, so essentially this thread is saying the FBI counter-terrorism team under the Clinton Administration had no clue what they were doing? Thanks for the info, but I think we already knew that.

Diamond Cross · 12-05-2006, 08:47 PM

The thread is not about hate.

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I was just gonna say that, so essentially this thread is saying the FBI counter-terrorism team under the Clinton Administration had no clue what they were doing? Thanks for the info, but I think we already knew that.

Let's go back 14 years please, when I bet most people at the FBI didn't even know how to use a computer, are you going to complain we didn't have enough people trained with computers in 1993?

Let's get serious here, you are talking about when Clinton took a Bush I appointee, made him head of the FBI, and this was before Doom even came out

JaJae · 12-05-2006, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Let's go back 14 years please, when I bet most people at the FBI didn't even know how to use a computer, are you going to complain we didn't have enough people trained with computers in 1993?

Let's get serious here, you are talking about when Clinton took a Bush I appointee, made him head of the FBI, and this was before Doom even came out

...

Watson was then named as the Deputy Chief of the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Couterterrorism Center where he was instrumental in the successful investigation of the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996.

What does this computer rant have to do with anything? I'm confused. He was promoted under the Clinton administration and he was in charge when 9/11 was being planned. He "retired" after being in the FBI for about 25 years and was gone not long after 9/11.

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 09:22 PM

It shows how far back you are reaching to talk about how Clinton should be responsible for the FBI's structure in practically 2007 because he made a Bush apointee head of the FBI in 1993

And the CIA has nothing to do with this thread because we are talking about the FBI

JaJae · 12-05-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It shows how far back you are reaching to talk about how Clinton should be responsible for the FBI's structure in practically 2007 because he made a Bush apointee head of the FBI in 1993

And the CIA has nothing to do with this thread because we are talking about the FBI

I'm not reaching back to talk about Clinton. You made the this thread, not me! You're bashing these FBI officials that were removed under Bush and who advanced under Clinton to show that the FBI sucks at counter-terrorism. Maybe they did suck, I don't know enough, but it sounds like you should be glad that under the Bush administration these guys were removed.

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I'm not reaching back to talk about Clinton. You made the this thread, not me! You're bashing these FBI officials that were removed under Bush and who advanced under Clinton to show that the FBI sucks at counter-terrorism. Maybe they did suck, I don't know enough, but it sounds like you should be glad that under the Bush administration these guys were removed.

They were serving under Bush for quite awhile, the second person cited just recently resigned...and probably only because the WH got a hold of what was coming and he decided he was too old to fight for his job

JaJae · 12-05-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

They were serving under Bush for quite awhile, the second person cited just recently resigned...and probably only because the WH got a hold of what was coming and he decided he was too old to fight for his job

So in other words, under Bush people who proved to be what you consider "incompetent" were fired. You have a problem with this why exactly? I'm confused...

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

So in other words, under Bush people who proved to be what you consider "incompetent" were fired. You have a problem with this why exactly? I'm confused...

After the first WTC bombing, there was no large outcry for anti-terrorism...the GOP in 1994 didn't run on it and didn't act on it in 1995...I'm just defusing that because I know that's coming after I say:

Bush had been dealt with some 3,000 Americans and a huge outcry after 9/11/01, the focus of his presidency has been anti-terrorism, and 5 years later we have guys like this being our top counter terrorism officials?

Diesel66 · 12-05-2006, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

After the first WTC bombing, there was no large outcry for anti-terrorism...the GOP in 1994 didn't run on it and didn't act on it in 1995...I'm just defusing that because I know that's coming after I say:

Bush had been dealt with some 3,000 Americans and a huge outcry after 9/11/01, the focus of his presidency has been anti-terrorism, and 5 years later we have guys like this being our top counter terrorism officials?

he retired in 2002.

Thorgrim · 12-05-2006, 10:10 PM

Not John Lewis

RMNIXON · 12-05-2006, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

I believe the director is the only political appointee.

This guy also happens to have been placed in his glorious position while the FBI was under the control of the most honorable Louis Freeh (who we all know was appointed to director of the FBI by President Clinton)

[Freeh was director from 93 until 2001]

Shall we all together now blame those Democrats for putting this incompetent guy in charge?

So I guess Bush should haved "cleaned house" and replaced everyone with more competent political appointments!

RMNIXON · 12-05-2006, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

So in other words, under Bush people who proved to be what you consider "incompetent" were fired. You have a problem with this why exactly? I'm confused...

When "everything" must be "interpreted" for partisan attack all is clear.