Does Republicanism = Conservatism?

[Concept]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

During the clinton administration we added 1 trillion in debt.
From 1776 to 1980 we ran up 1 trillion in debt (adjusted for inflation)...this is also despite ww2, korea, vietnam, and a variety of other misc conflicts.

We will have about 9.2-9.5 when george bush is done. That means 7 of the 9 trillion dollars has come from the last three republicans.

If cutting taxes for the wealthy is "conservative" economics, i guess you are right. But they are doing it at the countries expense because they do not and will not reduce spending. We are financing these tax cuts and it is not trickling down. It might drip once in awhile, thats about it.

I agree with you. There's generally a tendency among Republican administrations to increase the deficit, whereas a Democratic administration will get rid of the deficit and create a surplus. Without conflict, the United States would have had a surplus.

But that's only part of thier conservative economics. Republicans are more for 'Laissez-Faire' economics than Democrats.

[bheld]

Originally Posted by Concept

I agree with you. There's generally a tendency among Republican administrations to increase the deficit, whereas a Democratic administration will get rid of the deficit and create a surplus. Without conflict, the United States would have had a surplus.

But that's only part of thier conservative economics. Republicans are more for 'Laissez-Faire' economics than Democrats.

No they're not. They're all for government regulation when it works to their advantage.

[Concept]

Originally Posted by bheld

No they're not. They're all for government regulation when it works to their advantage.

No, they're for security-oriented government regulation and social control at the expense of some .civil rights

But they're still adhereing to Laissez-Faire economics.

[bheld]

Originally Posted by Concept

No, they're for security-oriented government regulation and social control at the expense of some .civil rights

But they're still adhereing to Laissez-Faire economics.

When it benefits them, like I said.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by bheld

When it benefits them, like I said.

Them, the rich, or big business.

We really saw this when they let minimum wage increase with the stipulation that really rich people get another tax cut. Man it sucks being a member of middle America.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Them, the rich, or big business.

We really saw this when they let minimum wage increase with the stipulation that really rich people get another tax cut. Man it sucks being a member of middle America.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Them, the rich, or big business.

We really saw this when they let minimum wage increase with the stipulation that really rich people get another tax cut. Man it sucks being a member of middle America.

Always caught in the middle and used as a pawn

[motivez]

Originally Posted by TheMrs

I'm well aware of what classic liberalism is, thanks for the politics lesson.

And I know myself well enough to know that I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. In the modern sense and very basic definition of conservative and liberal there.

The Republican party is STILL using the word 'conservatism' they have not abandoned using it, and they are losing people as we speak. I mean, come on. I'm 37 years old and for the first time since I've been old enough to vote, I will be leaving the GOP. Why? Because I realize they are not what they are portraying themselves to be. I actually feel as though I've been screwed by my own party.

I believe this is why I will be registering Indy.

I think, not suprisingly maybe, that many, many people are feeling the same when it comes to the GOP. The last few years I think it's been shown pretty clearly that they are not what they represent themselves to be.

They were supposed to bring all of this stuff to Washington, like integrity, etc.. but they regained too much power too quickly perhaps, and it turned them away from the principles that drove the conservative movement to succeed.

As it stands now the only thing I really see the Republicans doing as a party is using wedge social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc) to split the country to drum up votes, whlie pandering to big business and screwing over the majority of people who vote for them soley on those conservative wedge issues.

I really feel like there's a paradigm shift going on right now in US politics, from both major parties. This election cycle is going to be very interesting, because many Democrats are running fiscally to the right of the massive spending of their GOP counterparts.

That'll hold true through the '08 election I believe. There is a fight for what the Republican party is going to become, and whether or not the neoconservatives who talk a good game but fail to actually play it well will succeed over the more traiditional version of what a Republican is.

I have moved to the left simply because I feel the line of what constitutes a "liberal" (which is a dirty word) has shifted fairly dramatically in the last few years, but I would consider myself fiscally conservative or fiscally moderate, while socially liberal / progressive. I'm a registered Independent though, and dont see myself becoming a registered X, Y, or Z unless something dramatic changes.

[rizzohead]

Here is the deal: The Government is not "stripping citizens of this country down to sheep status"... moreover, the citizens of this country ARE sheep. The proof of this is rampant in this particular forum, the television, coffee shop down the street, and in your next psuedo-intelligent conversation. While I will grant you that the vast majority of folks like you and me who enjoy spending time on political/current event weblogs, forums...etc. are generally more informed than the general populace, most are sheep nonetheless.
This very thread screams of confused bleating by its own nature: "Conservative, Republican, Liberal, Democrat, Independant... so many flocks to choose from...I just can't decide which one fits me best."
I apologize for the long windedness for the only thread I have ever chosen to respond to, but this is a topic very near and dear to my heart, for I believe it is the major reason for the enormous partisan split in our great Nation. I see far too often both sides of the political spectrum tuning into whichever news source they feel comfortable with and simply regurgitating whatever drivel Ann Coulter or Danny Rubenstein or the latest political science textbook may be spewing.
You will never hear me tell anyone that they should believe any issue I believe, instead, if engaged in a discussion or debate, I will give my own opinion, present facts, data, and statistics to support it, then let that person form their own opinion. Far better that than watching the O'Reilly Factor every evening and adopting whatever he says as gospel, which far too many of the sheep do..
Now I said all that to say this... no political partly is perfect for anyone except mindless clones. I urge everyone to do their own research, take what all side have to say, apply it to your own lives, and then form your OWN opinions. What this Country needs more than anything is more people who can think for themselves without needing NPR to tell them who the next president should be. One thing I can promise you... if you agree with any "politician" on every single issue... you need not be kept around for anything but the wool.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

No, this is why the term "neocon" was invented.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by rizzohead

Here is the deal: The Government is not "stripping citizens of this country down to sheep status"... moreover, the citizens of this country ARE sheep. The proof of this is rampant in this particular forum, the television, coffee shop down the street, and in your next psuedo-intelligent conversation. While I will grant you that the vast majority of folks like you and me who enjoy spending time on political/current event weblogs, forums...etc. are generally more informed than the general populace, most are sheep nonetheless.
This very thread screams of confused bleating by its own nature: "Conservative, Republican, Liberal, Democrat, Independant... so many flocks to choose from...I just can't decide which one fits me best."
I apologize for the long windedness for the only thread I have ever chosen to respond to, but this is a topic very near and dear to my heart, for I believe it is the major reason for the enormous partisan split in our great Nation. I see far too often both sides of the political spectrum tuning into whichever news source they feel comfortable with and simply regurgitating whatever drivel Ann Coulter or Danny Rubenstein or the latest political science textbook may be spewing.
You will never hear me tell anyone that they should believe any issue I believe, instead, if engaged in a discussion or debate, I will give my own opinion, present facts, data, and statistics to support it, then let that person form their own opinion. Far better that than watching the O'Reilly Factor every evening and adopting whatever he says as gospel, which far too many of the sheep do..
Now I said all that to say this... no political partly is perfect for anyone except mindless clones. I urge everyone to do their own research, take what all side have to say, apply it to your own lives, and then form your OWN opinions. What this Country needs more than anything is more people who can think for themselves without needing NPR to tell them who the next president should be. One thing I can promise you... if you agree with any "politician" on every single issue... you need not be kept around for anything but the wool.

Excellent post and welcome to the forum. Hope to see you around more often

[Concept]

Good stuff.

But there's nothing wrong with the O'Reilly Factor

Just messing.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by rizzohead

Here is the deal: The Government is not "stripping citizens of this country down to sheep status"... moreover, the citizens of this country ARE sheep. The proof of this is rampant in this particular forum, the television, coffee shop down the street, and in your next psuedo-intelligent conversation. While I will grant you that the vast majority of folks like you and me who enjoy spending time on political/current event weblogs, forums...etc. are generally more informed than the general populace, most are sheep nonetheless.

Sheep in what way?

I think you'll be hard pressed to find an active member of the forum that isn't independent thinking and able to come up with their own conclusions from knowledge they've gained through reading about various issues rather than just listening to the talking heads and pundits on various news stations.

Originally Posted by rizzohead

This very thread screams of confused bleating by its own nature: "Conservative, Republican, Liberal, Democrat, Independant... so many flocks to choose from...I just can't decide which one fits me best."

People have their values and they find a political party to represent those beliefs.. I don't see how that has anything to do with being a sheep?

Originally Posted by rizzohead

You will never hear me tell anyone that they should believe any issue I believe, instead, if engaged in a discussion or debate, I will give my own opinion, present facts, data, and statistics to support it, then let that person form their own opinion. Far better that than watching the O'Reilly Factor every evening and adopting whatever he says as gospel, which far too many of the sheep do..

Yup, most of our members feel the same way

Originally Posted by rizzohead

I apologize for the long windedness for the only thread I have ever chosen to respond to, but this is a topic very near and dear to my heart, for I believe it is the major reason for the enormous partisan split in our great Nation. I see far too often both sides of the political spectrum tuning into whichever news source they feel comfortable with and simply regurgitating whatever drivel Ann Coulter or Danny Rubenstein or the latest political science textbook may be spewing.

No worries, we're glad to have you on board

I also think that while there is obviously some of that, the vast majority of our members are independent thinkers who dislike the pundits as much as you do. You'll fit in well here

[6SpeedTA95]

This is a good thread, sucks I missed the first page

The Republicans were indeed conservative up until they took everything in 2000. That was the beginning of the downhill slide. Now registered republicans like myself feel abondoned by a party that is supposed to stand for small government, limited spending, responsible spending and the constitution Absolute power corrupts absolutely....I guess

[avsp]

Originally Posted by TheMrs

[... snip]
Never before had I heard Republicans using religion as a strong hold in pushing their political agenda. Nothing like what I've heard recently.. not even close. What am I talking about you ask? How about the issue of Homosexual marriage? Last time I checked.. conservatives would have wanted LESS government involvement in personal and private lives... NOT more. But here we sit... having some talking heads of the GOP telling the rest of us that "good Republicans are against gay marriage because it's a sin".
[... snip]
I have a feeling this man is rolling in his grave:[Reagan quotes]

Just an historical query

Wasnt it during the Reagan presidential campaigns that his assorted gunslingers/pollsters/hacks/politicos/demographers/etc first realised the power of & sought to build the alliance between the GOP & the evangelicals?
Or am I misinformed?

great thread BTW

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by avsp

Just an historical query

Wasnt it during the Reagan presidential campaigns that his assorted gunslingers/pollsters/hacks/politicos/demographers/etc first realised the power of & sought to build the alliance between the GOP & the evangelicals?
Or am I misinformed?

great thread BTW

You would be misinformed.

[motivez]

Really? I thought I remember hearing that as well. When did it start, then?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

This is a good thread, sucks I missed the first page

The Republicans were indeed conservative up until they took everything in 2000. That was the beginning of the downhill slide. Now registered republicans like myself feel abondoned by a party that is supposed to stand for small government, limited spending, responsible spending and the constitution Absolute power corrupts absolutely....I guess

That wasn't the start. Barry Goldwater was critisizing the direction of the republican party YEARS ago. It's just finally coming to blatant fruition as he described.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

This is a good thread, sucks I missed the first page

The Republicans were indeed conservative up until they took everything in 2000. That was the beginning of the downhill slide. Now registered republicans like myself feel abondoned by a party that is supposed to stand for small government, limited spending, responsible spending and the constitution Absolute power corrupts absolutely....I guess

I think your party lost its values in 1980... or atleast half its values.