hillary's gonna run - Page 2

nbiggershaft · 12-06-2006, 01:05 AM

Obama can outstar her, comon light at the end of the tunnel.

7960 · 12-06-2006, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Obama can outstar her, comon light at the end of the tunnel.

He's black so he's got that going for him, but he doesn't have her clout. He met with Soros the other day...... it'll be interesting but I think she'll get the nomination or at *least* be considered for VP.

ballz2wallz · 12-06-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Obama can outstar her, comon light at the end of the tunnel.

He has far too little experience to take on Hillary.

motivez · 12-11-2006, 08:17 PM

I think this election is really going to test the soul of the Democratic party.. whether they want to stick with an "insider" or move away from the traditional and give people a candidate that's real, who can inspire, who can lead, who has the clout and real world experience to tackle hard issues, rather than of one (like Hillary) that's been conditioned to win.

Hillary is probably a great Senator for NY. I don't really know enough about her legislative history to make a judgment. But it's painfully obvious that all of her moves have been carefully plotted so that she has the greatest shot at becoming the first woman President.

If she weren't planning on running it (and it hadn't been so obvious that she was going to run for years and years now), it'd be a lot easier to judge her record based on the merits.. but you have to have a bullshit filter. That's not to say she doesn't have experience, etc.. but.. you guys get the idea.

RMNIXON · 12-11-2006, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And you know this from your vast experience of being a Democrat?

Because of my vast experiance with politics. The parties are not that different in the way they operate. Bush was the golden boy of the party in 2000. McCain made a serious challenge, but Bush was able to win out with the voters, not just the party machinery.

I do suspect that this new love affair with Obama is driven in part by some concern about Hillary. Bill Clinton had the likeability factor and I don't think Hillery has that much of that beyond liberal circles.

RMNIXON · 12-11-2006, 08:49 PM

2008 is going to be a very interesting contest. The Bush Administration does not look like they are goning to run anybody which is the tradition so Republicans are open and the candidate can distance him or herself from the Bush to some degree. And with Hillary not looking so hot, and so many others Democrats wanting to run, they are still open unless someone can close ranks real quick. I still think Bill Richardson intends to run and may have made a slip in front of fox news?

Donkey® · 12-11-2006, 09:43 PM

So I guess the Republicans constant complaining about people being against Bush because "you don't like him" is rendered INVALID at this point?

AntiCentrist · 12-13-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Looks like I know who I'm voting for.... whatever (R) is opposing her.

That's probably a pretty accurate characterization of the position of 50-55% of the American electorate. I've never voted Republican in a Presidential general election, but Hillary as the Democratic nominee just might make it happen; I'd certainly never vote for her for anything.

With that said, don't be so confident Hillary will be the nominee. Her chances look about as good as Howard Dean's did four years ago, if that. She's an obnoxious, bitter, abrasive old Yuppie crone who will drive away potential supporters at every debate (and there are going to be lots of primary debates this time around, what with so many candidates). She presently has very broad support among Democrats (14 months before the Iowa caucuses; big deal), but its all an inch deep.

EDIT: One of the reasons a no-account doofus like Barack Obama is doing so well is because people are dying to have a candidate other than Hillary to support. If a guy who was a member of the Illinois state senate two years ago can present a major obstacle to Hillary's presidential ambitions, as the polls show he can, her odds aren't nearly so good as everyone seems to think. Hillary (and Obama) will both probably be out of the race before the Democratic Convention.

garbagemanlb · 12-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by AntiCentrist

That's probably a pretty accurate characterization of the position of 50-55% of the American electorate. I've never voted Republican in a Presidential general election, but Hillary as the Democratic nominee just might make it happen; I'd certainly never vote for her for anything.

With that said, don't be so confident Hillary will be the nominee. Her chances look about as good as Howard Dean's did four years ago, if that. She's an obnoxious, bitter, abrasive old Yuppie crone who will drive away potential supporters at every debate (and there are going to be lots of primary debates this time around, what with so many candidates). She presently has very broad support among Democrats (14 months before the Iowa caucuses; big deal), but its all an inch deep.

Amen. As a registered Democrat who has spoken to many other fellow Democrats, I can say with confidence that there is much displeasure with Hillary.

Money means nothing in the primaries when there is a serious grass-roots oposition to a candidate.

Scrum · 12-13-2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by AntiCentrist

That's probably a pretty accurate characterization of the position of 50-55% of the American electorate. I've never voted Republican in a Presidential general election, but Hillary as the Democratic nominee just might make it happen; I'd certainly never vote for her for anything.

With that said, don't be so confident Hillary will be the nominee. Her chances look about as good as Howard Dean's did four years ago, if that. She's an obnoxious, bitter, abrasive old Yuppie crone who will drive away potential supporters at every debate (and there are going to be lots of primary debates this time around, what with so many candidates). She presently has very broad support among Democrats (14 months before the Iowa caucuses; big deal), but its all an inch deep.

EDIT: One of the reasons a no-account doofus like Barack Obama is doing so well is because people are dying to have a candidate other than Hillary to support. If a guy who was a member of the Illinois state senate two years ago can present a major obstacle to Hillary's presidential ambitions, as the polls show he can, her odds aren't nearly so good as everyone seems to think. Hillary (and Obama) will both probably be out of the race before the Democratic Convention.

I totally agree and welcome to the board. The only people who seem to even be excited about Hillary running are the conservatives. I really don't see this happening.

AntiCentrist · 12-13-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I totally agree and welcome to the board. The only people who seem to even be excited about Hillary running are the conservatives.

In the event John McCain wraps it up early on the Republican side, I could easily envision Republicans, in states that allow cross-over voting, turning out to vote for Hillary in the hope of delivering a weak nominee to the Democratic Party. I don't know a single person, in the real world, who is willing to even consider voting for her; near as I can tell, she is universally despised (both my parents, my wife, and my ex-wife all voted for John Kerry in '04; none would seriously entertain voting for Hillary in either the Primary or General election, unless maybe Bush was seeking a third term; most of the other people I know are Republicans or non-voters). A lot of her support comes from the idea that she's not Bush, but a lot of other people who aren't Bush are going to become well known between now and Iowa.

6SpeedTA95 · 12-13-2006, 10:04 PM

Anti Centrist, what is it you dislike about Obama?

I seem to think a Hillary Obama ticket is possible and perhaps even likely in 08.

thatguyoverthere · 12-13-2006, 10:44 PM

Great thread. lol @ douche in tags.

I'm against Hillary mostly because if she is elected president or veep and serves out a full term, that would mean 32 years with either a Bush or a Clinton in one of the top two tiers of power. I don't think America should be controlled by two family dynasties.

As a liberal, I'm not excited by her because she voted for the war. I can't find any real accomplishments other than re-naming a bunch of post offices in NY state, so I couldn't boast about "all she's done" even if I wanted to. She also, to me, is the establishment candidate. She will not run a radical campaign, and I doubt she would preside over a radical agenda if she won.

On the other hand, she enjoys the same advantage that Bush did in 2000. Her last name is now a brand name. It's such a simple point, but it's a huge factor. Many potential voters don't know who the current VP is, barely heard of Obama, already forgotten Kerry... but in 2000 they dimly remembered the name Bush being associated with the word President. Expect the same vauge association for Hillary, and don't underestimate how essentially powerful that advantage is.

And Thorgrim's observations were right. Hillary is polished and calm, and appears focused. She's not going to shoot herself in the foot, as most Democrats seem fated to do. You guys also deride her for her single minded focus on becoming president, but hey, isn't that what we kinda need right now? A person in the White House that can conceive of a long term plan and see it through to success?

Being female is an advantage too. Women can be catty to each other, but in the end when the chips are down more often than not they stick together and support each other. How many women do you know who have gotten mad at a female friend and vowed to be their enemy, and later relented and made up? When people attack or make fun of her for being a woman, (douche? hmmm...) other women notice that... and they remember. Women also have their shit together for the most part, and I imagine they're the ones most likely to vote, but I dunno.

RMNIXON · 12-13-2006, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So I guess the Republicans constant complaining about people being against Bush because "you don't like him" is rendered INVALID at this point?

Constant from who? I missed something here.....

Many Dems who work with the President say they like him, just not his policies. Fair enough. It is the liberals who have the seething personal hate and get off on all the moron jokes. But they are not potential Bush voters. We are talking elections here.

thatguyoverthere · 12-13-2006, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Many Dems who work with the President say they like him, just not his policies. Fair enough.

Many Repubs say the same thing about Hillary.

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

It is the liberals who have the seething personal hate and get off on all the moron jokes. But they are not potential Bush voters. We are talking elections here.

The seething hate is nothing personal!

As for the moron jokes, I kinda like the one about the golden urinal. The rest aren't very funny, unless it's a moronic quote from Bush himself! You can't blame Dems for that!

AntiCentrist · 12-14-2006, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Anti Centrist, what is it you dislike about Obama?

He's not qualified for the job, for one. Christ, this time two years ago, he was still a member of the Illinois state senate. Secondly, I don't really know who the heck he is. Why would I? He's been a member of the U.S. Senate for less than two years; for all practicaly purposes, he's a nobody. I also don't care for the way the media is trying to shove his candidacy down our throats. I think we all know the reason they're doing this, and frankly I think the Presidency is a little too important to be handed out on the basis of affirmative action. Plus I don't trust people who are always smiling. And then there's the simple fact that I want the Democrats to win in 2008 (unless they nominate Hillary), and I don't think a young Black freshman Senator from a no-contest blue state who's middle name is "Hussein," and who's father was a Muslim (unless I'm mistaken), is going to be the next President of the United States.

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I seem to think a Hillary Obama ticket is possible and perhaps even likely in 08.

You can safely assume that at least one of the candidates on the Democratic ticket will be a White male.

7960 · 12-14-2006, 12:15 AM