Dems Plans for AFTER the war?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Hey man, if there was a size associated with being a democrat, you'd be the biggest one I've ever talked to... so I'm merely seeing why they think things through you.

Pushing more on the actual subject: Taking money from the economy to help (or make?) people do something that they may or may not do on their own is good for the economy?

I mean, seems to me the immediate result would be hurting the economy, and the eventual result would be a helping... whereas leaving well-enough alone would cause no immediate harm and would still have eventual good. Or so it seems

Taking out a temporary deficit for the government on that issue alone would not take money out of the economy or hurt it

It would just benefit

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Hey man, if there was a size associated with being a democrat, you'd be the biggest one I've ever talked to... so I'm merely seeing why they think things through you.

[Ardentfrost]

The deficit has to be made up at sometime, right? Even if you spread the cost over a few years, it's still less money floating around naturally, hence it is hurting, not helping.

That is, unless there is a plan for another country to pay for us going Green

[Ardentfrost]

lol, don't deny it man you know you LOVE being a liberal

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The deficit has to be made up at sometime, right? Even if you spread the cost over a few years, it's still less money floating around naturally, hence it is hurting, not helping.

That is, unless there is a plan for another country to pay for us going Green

Actually, the government and business would gain money when the investment paid off

You are using the same logic that says I shouldn't invest in GE because a quicker way to help the economy is to just go out and spend all my money on american beer

[TheMrs]

I have yet to hear any plans from EITHER camp over what will happen or what they'd like to see happen after the war.

Of course, I have my reservations over whether or not there will ever even BE an end to the "war"... at this juncture, it's not looking too promising.

Maybe *that's* why we haven't been given diddly shit from either side.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by TheMrs

I have yet to hear any plans from EITHER camp over what will happen or what they'd like to see happen after the war.

Of course, I have my reservations over whether or not there will ever even BE an end to the "war"... at this juncture, it's not looking too promising.

Maybe *that's* why we haven't been given diddly shit from either side.

i think the question pertains to if the troops are withdrawn. because the democrats are calling for troop withdrawal, what then?

republicans plan on 'staying the course' as someone mocked already, and that means we need to stay and take care of the mess we created. that can and will most likely take some time. that's the plan at this point, and a good one i think.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Actually, the government and business would gain money when the investment paid off

You are using the same logic that says I shouldn't invest in GE because a quicker way to help the economy is to just go out and spend all my money on american beer

Well, if beer is what you want. Then the beer companies do better and expand their operations and might need more of the plethora of things GE has to offer. Then GE is making more money and can afford to go green which in turn decreases their overhead and then [this is where we pretty much agree on what's going to happen].

But are you talking about making the company pay the money back with interest? If that's the case, you really are talking about forcing companies to go green? Or are you just getting the gov't to function as a bank? Why would the government need to function as a bank? we have banks for that

[motivez]

After the war is supposed to be when exactly? 15 years? 20 years?

We're going to be in Iraq for a long time whether or not the Democrats win, and so that's always going to be at the forefront of discussion until we finally manage to fix the clusterfuck we've gotten ourselves into.

The Democrats recently released a proposal saying what they'll be focusing on if they win enough seats.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

After the war is supposed to be when exactly? 15 years? 20 years?

We're going to be in Iraq for a long time whether or not the Democrats win, and so that's always going to be at the forefront of discussion until we finally manage to fix the clusterfuck we've gotten ourselves into.

The Democrats recently released a proposal saying what they'll be focusing on if they win enough seats.

If they can offer a plan for the war, even if the plan is a 15 year plan, that's more than the republicans have given us

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Well, if beer is what you want. Then the beer companies do better and expand their operations and might need more of the plethora of things GE has to offer. Then GE is making more money and can afford to go green which in turn decreases their overhead and then [this is where we pretty much agree on what's going to happen].

But are you talking about making the company pay the money back with interest? If that's the case, you really are talking about forcing companies to go green? Or are you just getting the gov't to function as a bank? Why would the government need to function as a bank? we have banks for that

Banks are out there to make money, they do not wake up at 9am and think "how can I help the American economy"

The US government would act as a bank that instead of trying to make a huge profit, instead tried to help businesses

that = no huge downpayments, no huge interest rates....all the reason to invest in themselves, help their business, and in turn help the economy

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

If they can offer a plan for the war, even if the plan is a 15 year plan, that's more than the republicans have given us

They have?

They want to change the deployment of the troops so that the Iraqi's are finally given the opportunity to stand up and do something for themselves.

We can still be there to ensure things don't go completely awry, for humanitarian, construction, etc.. but militarily, we need to allow them the opportunity to either succeed or fail.

If they fail, we can work on what needs fixing, but without taking off the training wheels we're never going to see any measurable progress.

I believe Iraq is in the middle of a civil war, and death statistics back that up.. but I don't believe we can put an end to it at the barrel of a gun.

[TheMrs]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

i think the question pertains to if the troops are withdrawn. because the democrats are calling for troop withdrawal, what then?

republicans plan on 'staying the course' as someone mocked already, and that means we need to stay and take care of the mess we created. that can and will most likely take some time. that's the plan at this point, and a good one i think.

Yes, that's a good one and I agree that we must now clean up the mess we've made.. but honestly. Do you see the withdrawal of U.S. forces any time in the very near future? I sure as hell don't.

I live near Fort Leavenworth in Kansas. Many soldiers there are getting ready to be deployed AGAIN to Iraq. I know this, because a few of the women (mothers of some of these boys and a few wives whom I've worked with) I know (neighbors and co-workers who I've been in contact with all summer) have just recently been talking about them having to go back.

Now. I understand that we've a job to do, believe me... I come from a military family, I know about finishing the job. But the all too commonly used "Stay the course" is a load of bullshit. Stay what course, exactly? No, I don't expect the Feds to make us privy to their top secret timelines.. but goddamnit.. give us a little more than "stay the course".. that's the biggest cop out I've ever heard and they've been saying it for *how* long now?

A plan doesn't consist of:

1. You run over there
2. I'll run over here
3. We both jump on him and kick him in the shins
4. Stay the course
5. Just keep staying the course
6. Hang on.. we're almost there.. stay that course!
7. Yes, our plan is to...... stay the course
8. Yes the stay the course plan is coming together nicely....

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Banks are out there to make money, they do not wake up at 9am and think "how can I help the American economy"

The US government would act as a bank that instead of trying to make a huge profit, instead tried to help businesses

that = no huge downpayments, no huge interest rates....all the reason to invest in themselves, help their business, and in turn help the economy

Well, they have to overtake inflation, so that's some interest there. Then, they borrow the money from the Fed anyway, which means they have to charge at least MARR, and it might even be more.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

They have?

They want to change the deployment of the troops so that the Iraqi's are finally given the opportunity to stand up and do something for themselves.

We can still be there to ensure things don't go completely awry, for humanitarian, construction, etc.. but militarily, we need to allow them the opportunity to either succeed or fail.

If they fail, we can work on what needs fixing, but without taking off the training wheels we're never going to see any measurable progress.

I believe Iraq is in the middle of a civil war, and death statistics back that up.. but I don't believe we can put an end to it at the barrel of a gun.

I didn't say they have, I said IF they do.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Well, they have to overtake inflation, so that's some interest there. Then, they borrow the money from the Fed anyway, which means they have to charge at least MARR, and it might even be more.

whatever it is, we all know it is a lot less than a loan from a bank

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

whatever it is, we all know it is a lot less than a loan from a bank

Wouldn't them borrowing from a bank be better for the economy though?

Plus, you never answered if it was going to be forced or not

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Wouldn't them borrowing from a bank be better for the economy though?

Plus, you never answered if it was going to be forced or not

The plan hasn't been written in stone, we don't know what will help the economy the best along with the environment

Forcing safer products on corporations calls for people to trust the brands more and purchase more, maybe a similiar principle would work here

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The plan hasn't been written in stone, we don't know what will help the economy the best along with the environment

Forcing safer products on corporations calls for people to trust the brands more and purchase more, maybe a similiar principle would work here

I'm all for a booming economy and a healthy environment, I just want both to be achieved simultaneously instead of sacrificing one for the other.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I didn't say they have, I said IF they do.

And I'm saying, but they already have.