The military is full of smart people

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 10:08 AM

So I've recently thought about how true this really is, based on the controversy brought about by Mr. Kerry and Mr. Rangel on their claims that unintelligent or uneducated people are in the military. Call it a botched joke, call it taken out of context by their political opponents, whatever, I don't care. That's not the point here. Personally I believe their 'botched jokes' or 'misconstrued statements' are only hint at what they really believe but can't say for political reasons.

So I'd like to say, I think the military is full of very smart people, and I'd like to explain why.

First, I need to explain what I believe smart is. It's obvious there are smart positions in the military, requiring training in physics, math, science, etc. But smart isn't solely intelligence, smart isn't solely 'street smarts' or an ability to function in every day society. I believe it's a mixture of many things, which may include intelligence (in this case book smarts), street smarts, and an ability to use common sense, reason, and critically think. Certainly these last 3 don't require a large amount of book smarts. At the same time, it's important to note that people with considerable amounts of book smarts are often completely inept when it comes to functioning in society and therefore, in my eyes, not really that smart. What good is intelligence if it can't even be used? Likewise, you don't have to educated to be smart. To be educated only means you've had a chance to tap into what smarts you have.

The point here is then, that when a person is given a certain set of skills, placed in a certain situation, he is able to make the most of that situation or circumstance, improve himself or the situation, and come out on top in the end. That to me is the definition of smart.

So how does this apply to the military and their use of the 'poor' and 'stupid'? We all know that many poor or disadvantaged in life join the military. There is nothing to deny about that. But are they stupid? Far from it. Here is a situation where people have not been given the greatest advantage or opportunities in life. Here are people who have little, who don't know what they want, or have even made mistakes in their lives. When presented with an opportunity to make something of themselves, to right their wrongs, or to provide for their kids and families what they never had, they have two options; take it or leave it. As I explained earlier, they are smart when they make the most of what they have to better themselves, their lives, and their situations. If that means joining the military, then they are very smart.

The military provides many opportunities in all walks of life. They provide the opportunity for an education otherwise unattainable by many, specifically financially. They provide training in fields oft used in fields outside the military, assuring job security and experience. Lastly they provide training in discipline, responsibility, and desire where it otherwise may have been lost in the follies of youth. All of these, to anyone who wants to better themeslves, are often desireable. To desire these things, take actions to attain them, and pursue them indicate to me that the person is indeed smart.

This brings up another good point; why does the military target the poor or disadvantaged? We can approach this from a capitalistic point of view. When a business wants to sell a product or service, who do they market their product or service to? Naturally, those that need it most and are likely to use their product or service. Similarly, the military's success resides on recruitment. If they don't recruit, they don't succeed. Naturally, they will market themselves to those that need their services the most, providing benefit to both sides of the service. Who are those that will benefit most from the military? The poor or disadvantaged. Knowing this, don't ever knock the military for 'targeting' classes of people. In fact, you can thank them for giving those people an opportunity they may have never had before.

Now this is certainly not to forget those that join out of sheer desire to serve our country. There are many like that too, whose patriotism overrides anything else they want to do in life, or who want to experience the military as an accomplishment in life. To those I also give credit, and I also consider smart. They know what they want in life, and they pursue it, no matter what other opportunities they have to turn down. There are many on this very forum.

That is all. In conclusion the military is in fact full of people quite the opposite of stupid. They are smart, very smart, pursuing a life better than what they had, desiring to provide a better life for their families, and trying to make the best of what life has handed them. That is all anybody can ask of one another.

To all you men and women in the military, I salute you, because I have no doubt many of you are smarter than I am.

Scrum · 12-13-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

So I've recently thought about how true this really is, based on the controversy brought about by Mr. Kerry and Mr. Rangel on their claims that unintelligent or uneducated people are in the military. Call it a botched joke, call it taken out of context by their political opponents, whatever, I don't care. That's not the point here. Personally I believe their 'botched jokes' or 'misconstrued statements' are only hint at what they really believe but can't say for political reasons.

I personally believe that they didn't intend for their comments to come out the way you took them and I don't believe they are a hint at how they really feel about the military.

six6ftr · 12-13-2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

So I've recently thought about how true this really is, based on the controversy brought about by Mr. Kerry and Mr. Rangel on their claims that unintelligent or uneducated people are in the military. Call it a botched joke, call it taken out of context by their political opponents, whatever, I don't care. That's not the point here. Personally I believe their 'botched jokes' or 'misconstrued statements' are only hint at what they really believe but can't say for political reasons.

So I'd like to say, I think the military is full of very smart people, and I'd like to explain why.

First, I need to explain what I believe smart is. It's obvious there are smart positions in the military, requiring training in physics, math, science, etc. But smart isn't solely intelligence, smart isn't solely 'street smarts' or an ability to function in every day society. I believe it's a mixture of many things, which may include intelligence (in this case book smarts), street smarts, and an ability to use common sense, reason, and critically think. Certainly these last 3 don't require a large amount of book smarts. At the same time, it's important to note that people with considerable amounts of book smarts are often completely inept when it comes to functioning in society and therefore, in my eyes, not really that smart. What good is intelligence if it can't even be used? Likewise, you don't have to educated to be smart. To be educated only means you've had a chance to tap into what smarts you have.

The point here is then, that when a person is given a certain set of skills, placed in a certain situation, he is able to make the most of that situation or circumstance, improve himself or the situation, and come out on top in the end. That to me is the definition of smart.

So how does this apply to the military and their use of the 'poor' and 'stupid'? We all know that many poor or disadvantaged in life join the military. There is nothing to deny about that. But are they stupid? Far from it. Here is a situation where people have not been given the greatest advantage or opportunities in life. Here are people who have little, who don't know what they want, or have even made mistakes in their lives. When presented with an opportunity to make something of themselves, to right their wrongs, or to provide for their kids and families what they never had, they have two options; take it or leave it. As I explained earlier, they are smart when they make the most of what they have to better themselves, their lives, and their situations. If that means joining the military, then they are very smart.

The military provides many opportunities in all walks of life. They provide the opportunity for an education otherwise unattainable by many, specifically financially. They provide training in fields oft used in fields outside the military, assuring job security and experience. Lastly they provide training in discipline, responsibility, and desire where it otherwise may have been lost in the follies of youth. All of these, to anyone who wants to better themeslves, are often desireable. To desire these things, take actions to attain them, and pursue them indicate to me that the person is indeed smart.

This brings up another good point; why does the military target the poor or disadvantaged? We can approach this from a capitalistic point of view. When a business wants to sell a product or service, who do they market their product or service to? Naturally, those that need it most and are likely to use their product or service. Similarly, the military's success resides on recruitment. If they don't recruit, they don't succeed. Naturally, they will market themselves to those that need their services the most, providing benefit to both sides of the service. Who are those that will benefit most from the military? The poor or disadvantaged. Knowing this, don't ever knock the military for 'targeting' classes of people. In fact, you can thank them for giving those people an opportunity they may have never had before.

Now this is certainly not to forget those that join out of sheer desire to serve our country. There are many like that too, whose patriotism overrides anything else they want to do in life, or who want to experience the military as an accomplishment in life. To those I also give credit, and I also consider smart. They know what they want in life, and they pursue it, no matter what other opportunities they have to turn down. There are many on this very forum.

That is all. In conclusion the military is in fact full of people quite the opposite of stupid. They are smart, very smart, pursuing a life better than what they had, desiring to provide a better life for their families, and trying to make the best of what life has handed them. That is all anybody can ask of one another.

To all you men and women in the military, I salute you, because I have no doubt many of you are smarter than I am.

Very well said and appreciated!

SpicyMcVoodoo · 12-13-2006, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

We all know that many poor or disadvantaged in life join the military. There is nothing to deny about that. But are they stupid? Far from it. Here is a situation where people have not been given the greatest advantage or opportunities in life. Here are people who have little, who don't know what they want, or have even made mistakes in their lives.

I love how you start your post out accusing politicians of secretly thinking that people in the military are stupid or are forced into the military because they have no other options. And then you go on to say many people in the military are poor, disadvantaged, don't know what else to do and have made mistakes in their lives.

In other words, you yourself have said the same taboo things you berate politicians for saying.

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I love how you start your post out accusing politicians of secretly thinking that people in the military are stupid or are forced into the military because they have no other options. And then you go on to say many people in the military are poor, disadvantaged, don't know what else to do and have made mistakes in their lives.

In other words, you yourself have said the same taboo things you berate politicians for saying.

Nowhere did I say they were stupid, or imply they weren't smart. I've never argued that they weren't poor. This issue that people make with 'why don't presidents fight the war, why do we always send the poor' isn't what I had issue with.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 12-13-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Nowhere did I say they were stupid, or imply they weren't smart. I've never argued that they weren't poor. This issue that people make with 'why don't presidents fight the war, why do we always send the poor' isn't what I had issue with.

Well, you did say these people "don't know what they want," which does seem to imply more than a lack of money. Perhaps that implies more a lack of determination than intelligence. Whatever the case, my point is that you and other conservatives would shit a brick of a democrat said the things you said in your OP.

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Well, you did say these people "don't know what they want," which does seem to imply more than a lack of money. Perhaps that implies more a lack of determination than intelligence. Whatever the case, my point is that you and other conservatives would shit a brick of a democrat said the things you said in your OP.

I don't think the GOP denies that poorer people, in general, join the military. Simple statistics prove this. There are reasons the military targets certain schools and areas than others. Why would anybody want to refute this? Perhaps you're just trying to discredit the body of my post with a few knit-picky things, in which case, I'll just ignore it.

And what's wrong with not knowing what one wants in life? Until last week, I didn't know what I want either. But smart people actually do something about it.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 12-13-2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think the GOP denies that poorer people, in general, join the military. Simple statistics prove this. There are reasons the military targets certain schools and areas than others. Why would anybody want to refute this?

Is Military Service For Poor People?

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

And what's wrong with not knowing what one wants in life?

Not necessarily anything, but if you say people join the military because they don't know what else to do, it implies the military is the default option for directionless people in life. A democrat would be criticized to no end for saying that.

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Is Military Service For Poor People?

Well I can't see the graph, but it does seem that it's a good thing that my post was about them being smart, not poor.

Not necessarily anything, but if you say people join the military because they don't know what else to do, it implies the military is the default option for directionless people in life. A democrat would be criticized to no end for saying that.

No, I say people might join the military because it provides them options, and is a step in finding what they want to do. Nobody would ever criticize anybody for actually trying to make a difference in their life.

There are others who prefer not to do anything, sit at home and watch TV and play on the computer, and be stagnant. Those are the people I criticize.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 12-13-2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Well I can't see the graph, but it does seem that it's a good thing that my post was about them being smart, not poor.

You said they were smart because they were poor and chose the military as a way out of poverty. The two are dependent in your argument.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, I say people might join the military because it provides them options, and is a step in finding what they want to do. Nobody would ever criticize anybody for actually trying to make a difference in their life.

There are others who prefer not to do anything, sit at home and watch TV and play on the computer, and be stagnant. Those are the people I criticize.

Why are you talking about criticizing people for choosing the military? The issue here is criticizing people who say things like the military is composed of poor people. I still maintain that if the exact words in your OP had come from John Kerry's mouth, we'd never hear the end of it from the conservative media.

I'm simply pointing out that conservatives have fostered such a culture of political correctness regarding what you can say about the military, that even your OP would be considered taboo.

So despite your insisting that saying soldiers being directionless and poor is a good thing, I'll apply your own words:

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Personally I believe their 'botched jokes' or 'misconstrued statements' are only hint at what they really believe but can't say for political reasons.

I think you really look down on soldiers, but won't say it for political reasons.

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 12:09 PM

I'm simply suggesting that anybody that chooses the military is smart, for whatever reason it may be; be it they are poor and have no options, be it they are unsure at hte moment about their place in life, be it they want to learn discipline or repsonsibility, or be it that they want to just fight for their country.

If you actually read what I wrote, all of those things are mentioned, and all of those things I feel the people are smart for wanting to better themselves and their lives.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 12-13-2006, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm simply suggesting that anybody that chooses the military is smart, for whatever reason it may be; be it they are poor and have no options, be it they are unsure at hte moment about their place in life, be it they want to learn discipline or repsonsibility, or be it that they want to just fight for their country.

If you actually read what I wrote, all of those things are mentioned, and all of those things I feel the people are smart for wanting to better themselves and their lives.

I'm really not sure what you meant. What you said could be construed in different ways. I'm sure many in the military could find parts of what you said offensive. But since you claim the ability to mind read Democrats:

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Personally I believe their 'botched jokes' or 'misconstrued statements' are only hint at what they really believe but can't say for political reasons.

Why can I mind read you and think you really hate the troops?

ballz2wallz · 12-13-2006, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

But since you claim the ability to mind read Democrats:

Why can I mind read you and think you really hate the troops?

Because I don't have a history of implying these feelings.

IminWonderland · 12-13-2006, 02:24 PM

I think that when the government is looking for recruits for the military, there are more important attributes than being "smart" (whatever kind of smart insterted here) that they look for. I would think they are looking alot for people who conform, who don't ask questions, people who take groupthink seriously, the military is a culture, and if you aren't already meshing into it, when you get into it, it will be beat into you. I don't think that just how "smart" someone is, is even really a factor in who the government looks for, and really who actually joins. There are million reasons to do something, or not do something, argueing about why someone did something is pointless, because for ever positive reason, there is a negative one.

kinggovernor · 12-14-2006, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I personally believe that they didn't intend for their comments to come out the way you took them and I don't believe they are a hint at how they really feel about the military.

what about everything they have had said about the military?

Scrum · 12-14-2006, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

what about everything they have had said about the military?

People have gotten all upset over nothing.

Kerry botched a joke. Rangel never even made a comment about the intelligence of the troops in any way. I would like to point out that both men have served in the military which is more than can be said about the talking heads who have twisted this and spoonfed it to the masses. People are seeing what they want to see out of this. They want the Democrats to hate the military. These are the same people who thought Bush was doing a bang-up job too, so their opinion should hold little weight.