Would the world be better off without Israel?

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Gee, that seems the be the whole reason the Muslims want the territory too. I don't hear you criticizing them though. .

Couldn't possibly be that they were there first.

Or anything like that. (And don't give me the bullshit about it was HISTORICALLY Jewish. It has historically belonged to several groups of people. I guess we can just carve out another chunk and give it to Rome eh?)

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by 7960

They wouldn't hate the US for removing them, no. But it also doesn't mean they'd begin liking us, either.

I don't know..

If the landlord evicted my neighboors with the loud dog, I sure as hell wouldn't dislike the man/woman

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by 7960

This is what I don't get.......... why not?

There were already people there.

People that had nothing to do with the horrible events in Germany.

I really wouldn't be opposed to Isreael if it was in, for example - Germany.

[Kytro]

I don't think the world would be better off. The conflict is merely a symptom of the problem

[7960]

Originally Posted by Freetos

There were already people there.

Right...jews and muslims were both there. Also, the british won in WW1 and were in control of the region. How does that fit into your opinion?

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by 7960

Right...jews and muslims were both there. Also, the british won in WW1 and were in control of the region. How does that fit into your opinion?

Simply because of who had been there longer, and what the numbers at the time were.

Sure the Jewish population increased pre-creation of Israel, but Arab population increases were much greater in number.

In 1914, Palestine stood at about 700,000, with About 600,000 being Arab, and 85,000 to 100,000 were Jewish (which had increased from 24,000 just 40 years earlier).

[7960]

they lost
britain had control
the UN picked that site

guess it sucks being arab in 1917, 1922, 1936, 1947, and 1948.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

they lost
britain had control
the UN picked that site

guess it sucks being arab in 1917, 1922, 1936, 1947, and 1948.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by Freetos

Couldn't possibly be that they were there first.

Or anything like that. (And don't give me the bullshit about it was HISTORICALLY Jewish. It has historically belonged to several groups of people. I guess we can just carve out another chunk and give it to Rome eh?)

Well just pick how far back you want to go then. Why stop with those that were there when Israel was created? If you desire to give it back to the previous occupants why go back one step? After all such is corrective action/justice.
As you stated historically it has belonged to several groups of peoples.
You chose to go back to the ones you favored while denying any other previous claims. Rather shortsighted and certainly biased I do believe.
I too am biased and I believe the Jews have more valid claim to the real estate than any other.
Of course let's just give it to the group that murders innocent women and children while demanding it back.
Please , yielding to murderers and thier raging demands is the height of follllllllllllllllllly! TZS

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

Well just pick how far back you want to go then. Why stop with those that were there when Israel was created? If you desire to give it back to the previous occupants why go back one step? After all such is corrective action/justice.
As you stated historically it has belonged to several groups of peoples.
You chose to go back to the ones you favored while denying any other previous claims. Rather shortsighted and certainly biased I do believe.
I too am biased and I believe the Jews have more valid claim to the real estate than any other.
Of course let's just give it to the group that murders innocent women and children while demanding it back.
Please , yielding to murderers and thier raging demands is the height of follllllllllllllllllly! TZS

Both sides kill innocent women and children.

Don't act like one sides shit doesn't stink.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think the jews have a more valid claim to the land?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Both sides kill innocent women and children.

Don't act like one sides shit doesn't stink.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think the jews have a more valid claim to the land?

You state the Israelis are no different than those that murder for the sake of murder? For the fear that it creates? Those that deliberately target women and children?

That position is so silly it deserves this reply.
Ignorance can be corrected by education and the desire to learn the truth.
However I doubt you have the desire.TZS

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

You state the Israelis are no different than those that murder for the sake of murder? For the fear that it creates? Those that deliberately target women and children?

That position is so silly it deserves this reply.
Ignorance can be corrected by education and the desire to learn the truth.
However I doubt you have the desire.TZS

No. I said Israel kills innocents just like the palestinians do. There is no disputing that.
They may not strap bombs to their chests to do it, but the people still end up dead.

I would suggest you read over the rules about keeping your posts directed to the subject and not the posters.

Now would you care to answer my question?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

No. I said Israel kills innocents just like the palestinians do. There is no disputing that.
They may not strap bombs to their chests to do it, but the people still end up dead.

I would suggest you read over the rules about keeping your posts directed to the subject and not the posters.

Now would you care to answer my question?

I gave my answer. You made the comparison . Such a comparison is laughable. That , -is -my -answer. TZS

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

I gave my answer. You made the comparison . Such a comparison is laughable. That , -is -my -answer. TZS

Just out of curiosity, why do you think the jews have a more valid claim to the land?

So your answer is because they don't kill innocent people?

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

Well just pick how far back you want to go then. Why stop with those that were there when Israel was created? If you desire to give it back to the previous occupants why go back one step? After all such is corrective action/justice.
As you stated historically it has belonged to several groups of peoples.
You chose to go back to the ones you favored while denying any other previous claims. Rather shortsighted and certainly biased I do believe.
I too am biased and I believe the Jews have more valid claim to the real estate than any other.
Of course let's just give it to the group that murders innocent women and children while demanding it back.
Please , yielding to murderers and thier raging demands is the height of follllllllllllllllllly! TZS

Point is just this:

The Palestinians were THERE and vastly outnumbered the Jews in 1917 (Balfour)

You don't give a group of people (who are not the majority, or just recently had started returning) land in the area, simply based on the fact that thousands of years ago - the land belonged to them.

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

You state the Israelis are no different than those that murder for the sake of murder? For the fear that it creates? Those that deliberately target women and children?

That position is so silly it deserves this reply.
Ignorance can be corrected by education and the desire to learn the truth.
However I doubt you have the desire.TZS

Dude.

It REALLY depends who you are talking about.

For example, Hezbollah does that shit all the time.

Agreed, kIlll hezbollah.

But Palestinians in general don't do that.

And look at the history of Israel, they have a LONG history of doing assasinations and terroristic like activities.

You do know that the IDF was the first developed millitary in the modern world that used "Human Sheilds" as part of their millitary strategy.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Freetos

Point is just this:

The Palestinians were THERE and vastly outnumbered the Jews in 1917 (Balfour)

You don't give a group of people (who are not the majority, or just recently had started returning) land in the area, simply based on the fact that thousands of years ago - the land belonged to them.

Should the U.S. return the land to all the native tribes then?

When we took control, Europeans were in the strong minority.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Freetos

Dude.

It REALLY depends who you are talking about.

For example, Hezbollah does that shit all the time.

Agreed, kIlll hezbollah.

But Palestinians in general don't do that.

And look at the history of Israel, they have a LONG history of doing assasinations and terroristic like activities.

You do know that the IDF was the first developed millitary in the modern world that used "Human Sheilds" as part of their millitary strategy.

The difference is that Israel, if not purposely, gives the appearence of attacking speficic targets which are known militants. I'm not going to dispute wth you whether or not it's deliberately discriminate because both of us do not know.

However, Nobody is saying Palestinians are all terrorists. Most are not. They have however shown through a majority vote the path in which they want to take.

It's now up to Hamas, who has carried out deliberate suicide attacks against civilians, to decide whether or not to prove themselves a legitimate government. The first step is recognizing Israel. You cannot kick out all the Persians, and you cannot kick out the Jews. Both groups need ot accept the setting in which they have been born-because most of them have been born post-mandate.

Right now they refuse to take the first step in recognizing this fact, which is only a willingness to accept Israel as a neighbor. That is the main reason they are refused aid and the current reason for the sanctions. However, if you have noticed most of the violence these days is internal, with neither Palestine or Israel attacking the other but within Palestine itself.

Things have changed since Palestine started the formation of its official state. Instead of continually rehashing the 60+ year old past, it's vital to work on a valid future that enhances the entire region both economically and socially.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Freetos

Point is just this:

The Palestinians were THERE and vastly outnumbered the Jews in 1917 (Balfour)

You don't give a group of people (who are not the majority, or just recently had started returning) land in the area, simply based on the fact that thousands of years ago - the land belonged to them.

Last I checked the winner gets to decide what happens. Since ww1 the arabs/palestinians/muslims/etc have not been winning. Seems pretty "A>B and B>C then A>C..... " to me.

[Freetos]

Originally Posted by 7960

Last I checked the winner gets to decide what happens. Since ww1 the arabs/palestinians/muslims/etc have not been winning. Seems pretty "A>B and B>C then A>C..... " to me.

Winning?

The decision was made by two superpowers to give the Jews the land.

One was decided in 1917, and one was decided by a leader 11 minutes after the state of Israel was formed.

Just because superpowers do something, DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.

It should be the palestinians land. Everyone knows it, mainly the Palestinians, and until it is returned, there will never be peace in the ME