substantiate your claims against islam

[imind]

too many of you are making accusations against islam that are completely unfounded, and none of you are providing any evidence beyond your tiresome statements.

so, now is your chance to justify why islam is 'bad'; provide links to any factual claims.

[Dumpy Dooby]

The antisemitism has become ingrained into Muslim culture as a whole. That's why Islam has become bad.

Would I actually need some factual evidence to back that up? I'd suspect that one would have had to live under a rock for the last decade to not realize that. If you can't think of anything, anything at all, that would substantiate my claim, then I will gladly provide you with examples.

[imind]

when 'bad' things are done in the name of christianity, it is dismissed as not truly a christian act, and more often than not, scriptural support can be made for this arguement.

so it is not enough to point to 'bad' acts committed by muslims, as one could easily argue, provided quranic scripture, that it was an un-islamic act.

what i am looking for is quranic scriptural support for many of the accusations made in other threads. for example, forced conversion - where is the evidence that this is called for?

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by imind

when 'bad' things are done in the name of christianity, it is dismissed as not truly a christian act, and more often than not, scriptural support can be made for this arguement.

This seems like a pointless rebuttal. We're talking about bad things with Islam, not Christianity. If you want to discuss bad things about Christianity, that's fine and dandy too. But saying, "He did it too!" is just nonsense.

so it is not enough to point to 'bad' acts committed by muslims, as one could easily argue, provided quranic scripture, that it was an un-islamic act.

No, that's not enough. Regardless of what the "inerrant" word of Allah says, they are being indoctrinated to be antisemites.

what i am looking for is quranic scriptural support for many of the accusations made in other threads. for example, forced conversion - where is the evidence that this is called for?

Then you should have specified that in your first post. Like I said, regardless of what the scripture actually says, the antisemitism in Islam is a problem. The manner in which the Muslim people are opting to interpret the Qu'ran is a problem.

[imind]

This seems like a pointless rebuttal. We're talking about bad things with Islam, not Christianity. If you want to discuss bad things about Christianity, that's fine and dandy too. But saying, "He did it too!" is just nonsense.

the point was simply that an act performed by a practioner of religion 'x' doesn't necessarily mean that act is condoned by that religion. some people simply cannot understand this unless you point out that some christians commit 'bad' acts, as well, and this doesn't necessarily make christianity an evil or violent religion.

Regardless of what the "inerrant" word of Allah says, they are being indoctrinated to be antisemites.

this may be true, but its irrelevant to the thread, as i am seeking justification for calling the religion of islam 'violent'. in order to do that, one should look to the standard by which muslims judge themselves - the quran.

Then you should have specified that in your first post.

i did. by asking for the justification of calling islam violent, i am asking for the quranic scripture which commands these violent acts. otherwise, they are merely violent acts committed by people who happen to be followers of islam.

now that i have explained the purpose of this thread, dumpy, if you haven't anything bad to say about islam, get the fuck out!!

[Dumpy Dooby]

This is from a thread over on
Offtopic.com

Q 9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts



Satanism or gods religion religion ???





Ironicly the boy holds up a pic of Imam Ali.
He murdered 100's of Iranien people and took their wifes and daughters as slaves and sold them at the market in Mecca and Medina to crule arabs and thanked Allah for the capture.....



A mother is happy she hurt her child...



Justice ....Islamic way



Q 5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger]

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts





It does not loock like a peaceful religion to me ....

















Religion create war and domination of people ....i say screw religion and hurray for freedom.....

[imind]

Q 5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; [Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger]

Q 9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

yeah, muslims are called to fight those who attack them. i don't see anything wrong with this. do you? and i have no idea where that portion in bold is from. its not from the quran, that i am aware of. even the link you provided doesn't contain those words.

[2:190] Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

as to the pictures you've provided, i don't know what that has to do with the discussion, as its been agreed on (has it not?) that the actions of believers do not necessarily equate to what is acceptable as per the 'rules' of its holy book.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by imind

yeah, muslims are called to fight those who attack them. i don't see anything wrong with this. do you? and i have no idea where that portion in bold is from. its not from the quran, that i am aware of. even the link you provided doesn't contain those words.

The part in bold is obviously not interpreting "war against Allah" as "attacking Muslims." For example, I can get a large group of people together and yell to the clouds, "I hereby declare war against Zeus!" I reckon that qital fi sabilillah doesn't have to be the result of an actual physical attack, as it has been illustrated by Muslim cultures.

as to the pictures you've provided, i don't know what that has to do with the discussion, as its been agreed on (has it not?) that the actions of believers do not necessarily equate to what is acceptable as per the 'rules' of its holy book.

Where do the rules speak against the actions of those people?

[imind]

The part in bold is obviously not interpreting "war against Allah" as "attacking Muslims." For example, I can get a large group of people together and yell to the clouds, "I hereby declare war against Zeus!" I reckon that qital fi sabilillah doesn't have to be the result of an actual physical attack, as it has been illustrated by Muslim cultures.

an excellent article from the site you linked to earlier, explains when war is acceptable and when it is not. an insult directed at islam is clearly not a call to arms...

The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar)

you will notice many in those photos holding signs declaring islam to take over the world. jihad is not to be conducted to claim territory, nor is the mujahid to be proud and boastful.

the article also goes into great detail about the 'rules' of war. again, clearly, flying planes into buildings full of innocents is forbidden, as some with the signs have expressed their desire for.

According to the Koran, war represents an "unwanted obligation" which has to be absolutely carried out with strict observance of particular humane and moral values and resorted only when it is inevitable.

In a verse, it is explained that those who start wars are the disbelievers and that God does not approve wars:

…Each time they kindle the fire of war, Allah extinguishes it. They rush about the earth corrupting it. Allah does not love corrupters. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 64)

A closer examination of Prophet Muhammad's life reveals that war is a method resorted for defensive purposes only in unavoidable situations.

link

[imind]

so, despite assurances made via PM's, with the insistence that it can be scripturally supported, nobody has come in to the thread to back their claims against islam. how frigging

[ballz2wallz]

imind, I'm glad you posted this, for this is the root of all that is wrong:

[Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger]

Basically, all it takes is a disbelief in Islam for it to be considered 'waging war against Allah', which then entitles, or even commands in other passages, Muslims to kill those waging war.

In summary, if you do not believe in Islam, you are to be killed. This is the exact thing that drives the terrorists, the fanatics, and the rest of the Muslims that want to 'take over the world'.

[imind]

[Anyone who disbeliefs in Islam and speaks against it is considered to be waging war against Allah and his messenger]

where did you get this? its not quranic, rather, moronic (zing!). link?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by imind

too many of you are making accusations against islam that are completely unfounded, and none of you are providing any evidence beyond your tiresome statements.

so, now is your chance to justify why islam is 'bad'; provide links to any factual claims.

OK, here you go. need more milk?
Islam-Terrorism, Inc.

Islam-Terrorism, Inc. - Part I

According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is:

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence againstpersons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

The religion of Islam fulfills each and every criteria of the above-mentioned definition of terrorism. The following irrefutable facts and deductive logic will amply demonstrate this statement. Ever since Islam was founded it has left behind a legacy of violent atrocities and horrible crimes. The holy book of the Muslims, the Koran, contains specific instructions on how to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder in order to further the interests of Islam . It can clearly be called a specific instruction manual of terrorism.

The Holy Koran is full of very unholy and terrorist ambitions, it is obviously not from God, as the Muslims would have us believe. Any sane individual can see that it is a journal and collection of a terrorist’s criminal activities and ideas. This terrorist’s name is Mohammed (popularly known as the prophet of Islam). During his lifetime, Mohammed organized at least 86 expeditions against people who either refused to follow his teachings or simply came in the way of his power crazed ambitions. He led the life of a serial killer, terrorist and rapist, who perpetrated genocide throughout Arabia. Along with the pagan Arabs, many Jews and Christians were victims of this mindless terrorist. Mohammed was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage and death. And he did all this in the name of God! Mohammed has clearly stated in the Koran that God has instructed him and all pious Muslims to loot, pillage, plunder, rape, torture and murder innocent human beings, in order to further the interests of Islam.

I have stated below just a few of the verses from the Koran, which support this fact. As the Koran is supposed to be timeless and universal, the verses in it hold true even today and are used everyday by pious Muslims to justify their brutal and terrorist activities.
1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."
In the above verse the great prophet of Islam, Mohammed, is giving step by step instructions on how to torture and kill the unbelievers if they don't follow Islam. He is clearly instructing Muslims to commit cold-blooded murder in the name of religion.

2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."
The above verse was stated by Mohammed after his first terrorist attack. He and his followers mercilessly massacred four innocent and unarmed merchants at Nakhla in 623 AD. The massacre came in January, the sacred month of Rejeb. Arabs regard this month as a sacred month, when warfare and violence is forbidden. Since this barbaric criminal act was led and sanctioned by the "great" prophet Mohammed, we can conclude that Islam's sacred activities include loot and cold-blooded murder of innocent individuals. The very beginnings of Islam are stained with the blood of innocents.

By stating the above verse, Mohammed completely absolved himself from all blame for having murdered innocents. The most insidious and devilish implication of this verse is that God is completely justifying Mohammed’s murder of the innocent Meccans. The import of this verse is that killing and violence are JUSTIFIED for Muslims, because they are doing it by divine ordinance! It is a religious duty of every Muslim to murder anyone who comes in the way of Islam. Since it is also the duty of every Muslim to ensure that the entire world is converted to Islam by force if necessary, one must directly conclude that it is the religious duty of Muslims to kill all those who are non-Muslim. This conclusion is derived directly from the supreme edict of Allah, who admonishes that even the Muslim who feels it is wrong to kill, must murder in the name of Allah, otherwise he is not a true Muslim. Over and above this, Mohammed is hypocritically implying that warfare is hateful to him, but he participated in it because God ordained it.

3. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."
This verse is in reference to the prisoners that Mohammed held for ransom after the battle of Badr. This battle occurred on March 17, 623 AD. This is the month of Ramadan—another sacred month for the Muslims! In this battle, Mohammed and his followers killed at least 70 innocent merchants from the Quraysh tribe of Mecca and slaughtered several hundred soldiers who came forward to defend them.

Here God the "Merciful" is saying that all the non-believers deserve to be killed! In addition, God is conveniently commenting that whatever loot Mohammed has plundered is "lawful and good" because it was done in service to God. So murder, rape, plunder and destruction are all perfectly legal with the Muslim God as long as they are done in the name of Islam! Mohammed is also insidiously making himself seem very kind for having spared the lives of the prisoners, when in fact he only let them live so he could ransom their lives for more money. In today’s world this is called "taking hostages" and defines "Terrorism" of the worst kind.

4. (Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."
The above verses from the Koran prove that Muslims are specifically instructed not to tolerate unbelievers. It directly states that people who do not believe in Mohammed and the Islamic God are to be tortured and murdered.. Not only does this verse clearly implicate that unbelievers must be tortured and killed, it goes on further to state prescribed methods for committing torture. The horrific acts mentioned above are in practice even today in Islamic countries. In fact, in India, Muslims tortured the Sikh Gurus and their families exactly as prescribed by the Koran. For example, the Sikh guru Tegh Bahadur was imprisoned in a cage like a wild animal, when he refused to forsake his religion for Islam. Three of his disciples were murdered in front of his eyes. One of them was Bhai Mati Das. He was sawed alive into little pieces. The other was wrapped up in cotton and burnt alive. Bhai Dyala, the third one, was boiled alive in a cauldron. Guru Tegh Bahadur himself was brutally tortured and killed in a similar fashion. One wonders at the mercy of "The all beneficent Allah" who enjoys watching the roasted burnt flesh of hapless innocents falling off their bones.

5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."
6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."
The above verses clearly state extreme terrorist activities, as they contain nothing but detailed recipes of horrific torture. Cutting off the hands and feet of individuals and then making them walk and jump, pouring boiling waters over their victims, making them drink it, burning them alive, inserting hot iron rods into their bodies, dismemberment and disembowelment, genital mutilation etc. are common Islamic practices.
I have mentioned only a few of the verses from the Koran to show that Islam is nothing but an excuse to legalize terrorism, genocide, massacre and other criminal activities. Many other verses that demonstrate these specific qualities, are to be found throughout the Koran . As Muslims worldwide regard the Koran to be the ultimate holy book, it is followed to the word. Their daily lives are guided specifically by such passages from the Koran . Moreover, the terrorist, lecherous and criminal activities described in the Koran are considered to be the sacred words of God. Is it any wonder that mindless Muslims all over the world, justify their criminal activities of destruction, loot, torture, rape and murder by pointing to the Koran? They actually consider their acts to be holy and believe that for committing such holy acts they will go to paradise—a paradise where they will have plenty of wine, women and young boys for their sexual pleasure. (How Mohammed uses bribery in the Koran to attract mindless human beings is above the scope of this article and will be described in later ones).

Today, many followers of Islam such as Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Momar Gaddafi, Louis Farrakhan, Yasser Arafat, Dawood Ibrahim, Abu Nidal, etc. are famed for the brutality of their crimes and terrorism. The entire world is marred by violence and murder, wherever Muslims reside. The entire world is suffering due to the barbaric activities of Islamic terrorists. Pick up a newspaper today and you will note that 98% of terrorist activities that occur involve Muslims. I have named a few of the countries below as examples:
(1) India - Muslims have been terrorizing this country since the 7th century AD. Muslim regimes throughout India have a record of unparalleled terror and torture described in gory detail by contemporary Muslim chronicles themselves. Subjecting all non-Muslims to abject atrocities, plundering their wealth, abducting their women and usurping their houses of worship to be used as mosques and tombs, has been considered sacred duty of every Muslim. Such acts earned for the tormentors the coveted title of Ghazi, to be paraded as a citation of great Islamic glory and greatness. Aurangzeb, one of the last Muslim emperors had 10,000 Hindus massacred everyday for an entire year. He alone was responsible for the massacre of at least 3,650,000 Hindus and destruction of more than 11,000 Hindu temples. William Durant, author of the voluminous "Story of Civilization" has described the Muslim conquests in India as constituting the saddest and goriest chapter in human history. Muslims have destroyed and looted the whole country and have killed countless innocent Hindus in the process.

The Muslims forced the violent partition of India into three parts in 1947 (India, West Pakistan and East Pakistan). Even today, they terrorize the innocent people of India by causing bomb blasts and killing innocent individuals. Currently, the followers of Islam are concentrating their efforts in Kashmir, a northern state in India. Kashmir has been the land of the Hindus since ancient times. The word Kashmir itself is derived from Rishi Kashyap—a great spiritual leader of Hinduism. The Muslims have destroyed this beautiful land completely. Today the Pakistan-sponsored Muslim terrorists continue to kill, torture and rape the innocent Hindus of Kashmir. To cite the most recent incidents: In a cold-blooded massacre on the night of January 25th 1998, 23 Kashmiri Hindus, including 10 women and four children, were gunned down by a group of Islamic terrorists from Pakistan in Wandhama, 27 km from Srinagar. On April 19th Islamic terrorists belonging to the Pakistani Lashkar-e-Tobia terrorist organization claimed responsibility for gunning down at least 13 Kashmiri Hindus in Prankot village near Mahore in Udhampur district. The victims included four women and two children. Pakistan’s aim is to separate Kashmir from India and declare it as an Islamic state. I will provide you with more information on Islamic terrorism in India and Kashmir in a separate article.

[imind]

i'm preparing a rebuttal. will post when completed.

[up|dn]

I'm going to agree with DD that the problem with Islam, and any fundamentalist religion, is how they choose to interpret their sacred texts. This only become a problem for others when the religion is so dominantly part of the culture, that it becomes a political issue rather than a spiritual one, and becomes used to justify goals and actions that go far beyond spiritual ones. It's not a problem with the personal religion at all, but rather a problem when this is translated into the global world as a political and cultural issue.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by imind

i'm preparing a rebuttal. will post when completed.

That will be some rebuttal! Rebutting the truth must be almost impossible. You been preparing that rebuttal for almost a week now.
Just to let you know the TRUTH can not be destroyed. It remains despite the use of lies against it.
While you are rebutting please explain just how the RELIGION OF PEACE IS MURDERING tens of thousands around the world and planning on killing millions more in order to have ONE WORLD RELIGION-ISLAM..
I am waiting.
You taunted me severaL TIMES TO POST and I post just one source .
Then you go into retreat and study mode?
That was just one of many sources of the TRUTH!-TZS

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tick, tick, tick ,tick....
All joking aside. I do anxiously await your reply.
Please do enlighten this unenlightened peon.
I have been waiting many years for the elusive answer to how a religion that glorifies and promotes murdering the innocent can be a religion of peace.
I will keep checking this thread so as to be educated about Islam.
As if I already didnt know .lol-TZS