US Soldiers to John Kerry: Eat alone

[Diamond Cross]

He hasn't posted that link and I've been saying that if there is proof post it and I'd abck down, something they're completly ignoring because they ahve no proof. They're the ones acting like asses, and so are you.


Either psot the proof or admit you have none. What's so difficult to understand? The reluctance to psot it only proves there is no evidence of a prepared speech and he meant exactly what he said.

If there is evidence, POST IT! And I'll back down.
If there is evidence, POST IT! And I'll back down.
If there is evidence, POST IT! And I'll back down.
If there is evidence, POST IT! And I'll back down.

[Thorgrim]

I trust motivez that he had the link, you want to call him a liar go ahead...say there is no proof

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I trust motivez that he had the link, you want to call him a liar go ahead...say there is no proof

No link has been provided. Counter evidence has been posted.

[Diamond Cross]

I apologize for my badgering.

I would apreciate it if someone would post a like to the prepared speech please.

[Thorgrim]

Listen, if you wanted to make a big fuss about it, you should have 2 months ago when everyone was looking at the articles, is this the new way here? Wait until an issue is dead and then find some articles and bring it back, and everyone who has cleared their history in the past 2 months is automatically a fool with no case?

No one is going to waste their time finding the link, because it's not going to change anyone's mind, the people who thought he wasn't so bad will continue to do so, and the people who think he is a scumbag will continue to think he's a scumbag

[motivez]

I don't have the link anymore, because it's essentially a dead story. If you think I'm lying, that's fine, it's of little consequence.. because it's really a small issue in the grand scheme of the issue.

Even die hard Republicans admit he simply messed up and understand that it was unintentional

Here's some remarks about it by high profile Republicans:

* Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX): On the October 31 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, Armey said of the attacks on Kerry's remarks, "Well, it's pretty standard fare in political discourse. You misconstrue what somebody said. You isolate a statement, you lend your interpretation to it and then feign moral outrage." When host Chris Matthews stated that Kerry "was trashing Bush," Armey responded, "Right," and went on to say, "A fundamental premise of politics is we can make this work if people just never figure it out."

* Former Bush campaign chief strategist Matthew Dowd: On the same edition of Hardball, Dowd said, "I think John Kerry served in Vietnam very well, and misspoke and got jumped on." Matthews went on to specifically ask him, "Do you think Kerry was making fun of the troops?" Dowd responded, "Do I think that was his intention? No. I think Kerry supports the troops, and I think that he was a member of the military, and I don't think his intention was that. He said it badly and different people can interpret it different ways, but I think John Kerry's intention has always been in his own way to support the troops."

* Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX): On the October 31 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, DeLay said of Kerry, "I don't think he intended to insult the troops at a campaign event, but he did. I don't think he intended to call them stupid, but he did."

The fact that even someone as partisan as Tom DeLay recognizes it was a mistake says to me that the only people who believe it was an intentional remark are people who are a member of the "Hate John Kerry First" club and would rather allow their own prejudices against and dislike of John Kerry get in the way of rationality and reason.

People are free to believe what they want, and since this is going in circles I think I'm done with the topic unless something new comes up.

[imind]

Originally Posted by JaJae

No link has been provided. Counter evidence has been posted.

its true that no evidence has been posted to suggest his statements had been handed to the press prior to his comments, but this isn't proof that they weren't prepared.

so, while one cannot say they were prepared, one can neither say they weren't. leading to this...

Originally Posted by diamond cross

He meant exactly what he said and meant to insult the troops as he's done so time and time again.

you have no more proof for this than the statement it was a botched, prepared joke. there is no proof that he meant to say this, that he meant to insult the troops.

As The Boston Globe subsequently reported, reporters received copies of Kerry's prepared remarks from the Pasadena speech, which suggest that Kerry's written remarks did, in fact, take aim at Bush and Bush administration policies. From a November 1 article in The Boston Globe:

Kerry aides yesterday said the senator bungled a line intended to make fun of the president, a fellow Yale University graduate who has poked fun at his own lackadaisical attitude toward his schooling. According to Kerry's prepared text, as provided to reporters, Kerry intended to reference Bush in that portion of the speech.

"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy?" Kerry was to say. "You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

On November 1, Kerry said in a statement, "I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended."

link

the problem is that nobody is putting his statement in context with the rest of the speech...

How hard is it to explain what John Kerry meant to say on Monday? Pretty easy. Even Chris Matthews can do it:

Let me read you two points again, if I have had to do this five times during this hour I will do it. Just so when we walk away from the show you will have the facts, you can interpret them as you will.

This is the Associated Press story of what happened yesterday at Pasadena City College. After several one liners saying at one point that President Bush lived in Texas but now lives in a state of denial. He said then, “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you work hard, you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to be smart you do well, if you do not, you get stuck in Iraq.”

The context is he's trashing Bush for not having studied the region of the Middle East, not being prepared for what we face over there, the Sunnis and the Shias and everyone else fighting with each other, being stuck in that quicksand. That was his point.

Even National Review's John Derbyshire admits Kerry wasn't talking about the troops:

John Kerry is awful, and anything we can do further to degrade his political prospects is worth doing. But really, I saw a clip of him making the much-deplored remark, and it was obvious that the dimwit in Iraq that he referred to was George W. Bush, not the American soldier. It was a dumb joke badly delivered, but his meaning was plain. My pleasure in watching JK squirm is just as great as any other conservative's, but something is owed to honesty. There's a lot of fake outrage going round here.

link

here is a link to the transcipt of his statements in pasadena, etc.

[Diamond Cross]

Something funny:

ThePolitic.com » Kerry Right?

The picture.

[imind]

what does that add to the discussion, really? why don't you address posts 206-7?

[Diamond Cross]

intersting according to CNN while there are Republicans that are supporting him there are Democrats that are not supporting him and saying that he did say something stupid and needs to apologize for it.

Here are some examples from a CNN article:

Heat from own party

In the wake of the controversy, two Democratic Senate candidates in tight races -- John Tester in Montana and Harold Ford Jr. in Tennessee -- issued statements distancing themselves from Kerry's remarks and joining Bush's call for an apology.

"Sen. Kerry's remarks were poorly worded and just plain stupid," Tester said. "He owes our troops and their families an apology."

Ford said that whatever Kerry's intent, he "was wrong to say what he said. He needs to apologize to our troops."

"However, Senator Kerry's words don't alter the fact that the stay-the-course strategy pursued by President Bush and supported by Bob Corker isn't working," Ford said.

Corker, the mayor of Chattanooga, is Ford's Republican opponent in next week's vote.

Some Democrats in tight races who planned on appearing with Kerry changed those plans.

A Democratic official said Bob Casey, who is trying to unseat Republican Sen. Rick Santorum in Pennsylvania, canceled a scheduled appearance Wednesday night with Kerry in Philadelphia.

"I would be surprised if you see him welcome out there anywhere and certainly not in a race that is meaningful," the official said.

In Iowa, Bruce Braley, a Democratic House candidate, also announced Kerry would not be appearing with him as planned.

Kerry's office said House campaign appearances had canceled -- by mutual decision -- so as not to "allow the Republican hate machine to use Democratic candidates as their proxies in their distorted spin war in which once again they're willing to exploit brave American troops."

But Democrats in hot campaigns were clearly wary of their former standard-bearer. When a campaign aide to Sherrod Brown, who is trying to unseat Republican Sen. Mike DeWine in Ohio, was asked if Kerry was scheduled to be in the Buckeye State before election day, the response was, "Oh, God no."

Not all Democrats piled on. Dean dismissed the controversy, telling reporters in Vermont, "Kerry made a blooper. Bloopers happen," according to The Associated Press.

Link to full story:


Kerry apologizes for 'misinterpreted' words - CNN.com

It seems thing have been turned around, the republicans are supporting him while the Democrats aren't.

Since kerry did get an apology from the White House though, I'm dropping the issue.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I'm dropping the issue.

Praise the Lord

[7960]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Something funny:

ThePolitic.com » Kerry Right?

The picture.

on his last trip kerry asked to meet with the men who made that sign... they declined his offer

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

on his last trip kerry asked to meet with the men who made that sign... they declined his offer

That's pretty pathetic IMO. If they think they're man enough to respond the way they did with the sign and photograph, they should be man enough to say it to his face as well.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

That's pretty pathetic IMO. If they think they're man enough to respond the way they did with the sign and photograph, they should be man enough to say it to his face as well.

It's not pathetic. If I felt insulted by someone I'm not sure I'd bother making time for him, either.

[imind]

Originally Posted by 7960

It's not pathetic. If I felt insulted by someone I'm not sure I'd bother making time for him, either.

those dudes are pussies. yeah, so they felt insulted, they also received an apology, with the understanding that it wasn't intentional. they then went on to make a spectacle of their being insulted, and have refused an offer to make amends. i think this speaks volumes as to what kind of men they are.

[7960]

Originally Posted by imind

those dudes are pussies. yeah, so they felt insulted, they also received an apology, with the understanding that it wasn't intentional. they then went on to make a spectacle of their being insulted, and have refused an offer to make amends. i think this speaks volumes as to what kind of men they are.

they made the sign BEFORE the apology, DURING kerry's "I'm not apologizing to anyone!" phase... since he only apologized becuase of political pressure I can see where they wouldn't believe it (I know I didn't, and still don't believe he was sorry)

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

It's not pathetic. If I felt insulted by someone I'm not sure I'd bother making time for him, either.

It is very pathetic and I'd expect more maturity from those who wear the uniform

If you felt insulted by someone and were then compelled to make a sign like that, the person then apologized and wanted to meet with you, you'd have to be a pretty crappy human being to purposely avoid them.

It's like e-thuggery on the internets. Sure it's easy to insult or mock someone from behind a computer screen or in a photo, but doing it to someones face isn't as easy.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

you'd have to be a pretty crappy human being to purposely avoid them.

Not if I felt that apology wasn't sincere.

Face it, "misinterpreted" or not, he spent the next days telling every camera he could find that he was NOT sorry and would NOT apologize. It was only when people started talking about "how this may affect the mid-term elections" and when democrats started cancelling appearances with him that all the sudden he felt the need to tell the military he didn't mean to offend them and that it was a shot at Bush, not them.

Let's see... days of "fuck you" until pressure made him say he was sorry.... hmm... nope, I wouldn't believe him either. And I sure as hell wouldn't make time for him.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

Not if I felt that apology wasn't sincere.

Face it, "misinterpreted" or not, he spent the next days telling every camera he could find that he was NOT sorry and would NOT apologize. It was only when people started talking about "how this may affect the mid-term elections" and when democrats started cancelling appearances with him that all the sudden he felt the need to tell the military he didn't mean to offend them and that it was a shot at Bush, not them.

Let's see... days of "fuck you" until pressure made him say he was sorry.... hmm... nope, I wouldn't believe him either. And I sure as hell wouldn't make time for him.

A lot of people with mostly liberal or Democratic ideologies fail to see this. They like to think he did the honorable thing by apologizing to help the elections and to shift the focus off him, even though he shouldn't have had to apologize. To the other half of the country, they see he only apologized to help the Democrats and the letter he may not have even wrote himself was a joke considering all the TV appearances he did... coupled with the fact that the way it was worded, it was barely an apology.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

A lot of people with mostly liberal or Democratic ideologies fail to see ...... it was barely an apology.

Exactly. Anything said under duress can't be trusted.

He was getting a lot of pressure from dems to apologize. IMO he probably heard the "I will not apologize" soundbites for the 2008 election in his head. He had candidates in the 2006 midterms refusing to be seen with him...he became a political pariah and even ran home to Mass until after the elections!

He's said he's going to run in 2008. The last thing he needs is to start feeding the RNC ammunition in 2006. His apology was forced to say the least.