God and the Foundations of Our Government

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Thus making them Christian.

Tell that to the Cathars or the Templar Nights! Oh, now here I am going all Davinci Code on you people!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, without a doubt... that's why there's so much debate in this thread

My advice is to tell Mom that this is not a Christian Nation but the founders did have a right to religious expression in government. I think what bothers her is a perceived hostility to religion and Christians in particular by some people in America and she would not be wrong in that. And be nice because she is and will always be your mom!

That is Old Testament if you missed it!

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

My advice is to tell Mom that this is not a Christian Nation but the founders did have a right to religious expression in government. I think what bothers her is a perceived hostility to religion and Christians in particular by some people in America and she would not be wrong in that. And be nice because she is and will always be your mom!

That is Old Testament if you missed it!

Lol, don't worry about my debates with my mother I do a good job of convincing her why religion should be kept out of government, but she just likes to bring up the same arguments over and over. It's human nature to disbelieve new ideas (at least new to you). Nothing is scarier than the unknown, and if you build beliefs on an incorrect fact, then everything you "know" goes down the toilet when the "fact" is called into question.

It's why libertarianism's spread is pretty slow instead of really fast. It calls into question simple ideas that everyone takes for granted.... but that's debate for another thread

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Lol, don't worry about my debates with my mother I do a good job of convincing her why religion should be kept out of government, but she just likes to bring up the same arguments over and over. It's human nature to disbelieve new ideas (at least new to you). Nothing is scarier than the unknown, and if you build beliefs on an incorrect fact, then everything you "know" goes down the toilet when the "fact" is called into question.

It's why libertarianism's spread is pretty slow instead of really fast. It calls into question simple ideas that everyone takes for granted.... but that's debate for another thread

That's why I made my title "iconoclast."

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

Please get your facts correct will you???
That motto was first put on coin in 1864 , it was put on 2 centpiece.
In 1865 it was placed on many gold and SILVER COINS.
That motto sums up the feelings of the majority of Americans.
Our nation was without a doubt founded using christian philosophy
as the guideline.

wait...

so since the majority of religious people in the U.S. are christians that I must abondon my own and accept it as standard?

have you forgotten the 1st amendment?

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by lew

I imagine he got that confused with the "Under God" of the Pledge.

yeah, I did actually.. it was late and when I realized it I didn't really bother editing it

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

wait...

so since the majority of religious people in the U.S. are christians that I must abondon my own and accept it as standard?

have you forgotten the 1st amendment?

I have never suggested you abandon anything. I have never suggested banning or limiting the free exercise of any religion that does not break American law.
If a standard was to be accepted or used as a guide then certainly that standard should represent the majority not the minority.
Indeed the balancing act of protecting the rights of minorities while
allowing for a majority rule is extremely difficult.


However the more recent trend of creating laws that protect minority rights at the cost of infringing upon the rights of the majority must cease.

This failure of government must be corrected!!

Another example of government failure is the failure to enforce current immigrantion laws.
It is well known that the majority of Americans are against allowing this illegal-invader event continuing.
Some Americans and American politicians see themselves protecting the minority rights of these illegal invaders. HA! WHAT FOLLY!
Does any mexican in his home country have American minority rights??? -NO
THEN WHY SHOULD THAT SAME PERSON BE GIFTED WITH SUCH RIGHTS AFTER BREAKING OUR LAWS BY ENTERING OUR COUNTRY ILLEGALLY?

I never forget the 1st amendment. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc.

I do also understand that rewarding lawbreakers
by gifting them with American minority rights/status is folly.
Even greater folly gifting them with American citizenship.

[Pro Street]

What does that have to do with religion? I'm white, but not a christian.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

wait...

so since the majority of religious people in the U.S. are christians that I must abondon my own and accept it as standard?

have you forgotten the 1st amendment?

No and No.

I guess when you get elected and have some influence of what goes on the money you can work that out. Your arm is not being twited to become a Christian just because the Nation recognizes a contribution of religious values that happen to be Judeo-Christian to the founding of this nation. Funny how so many Christians in this nation and all over Europe give respect to the freedom to worship as one choses but get so little in return?

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

No and No.

I guess when you get elected and have some influence of what goes on the money you can work that out. Your arm is not being twited to become a Christian just because the Nation recognizes a contribution of religious values that happen to be Judeo-Christian to the founding of this nation. Funny how so many Christians in this nation and all over Europe give respect to the freedom to worship as one choses but get so little in return?

Oh sure, everything's just great until you actually DO something significant which runs against Christian mores.. The only reason abortion, marriage, and other 'decency' laws are even issues is due to the intolerance of the religious in this country. Who's to say that the people whom these issues apply are not exercising their choices based on their beliefs the same way that Christians choose NOT to for theirs. Funny, I don't see gays telling Christians they can't worship or live as they see fit...nor scientists, pregnant women, hollywood, or anyone else they've demonized over the years. I do see a lot of the opposite. As a result, I don't think the Christian sects can have any claim on 'suffrage' while they are busy forcing others to endure it, pointlessly, out of sheer ignorance, arrogance, and fear.

Since when are principles important just for being the originals? They must be continually relevant today or else they have no value. This reminds me of 'precedence' in the court system.. Sounds nice, but it basically absolves the judge/jury from focusing on the cases individual characteristics whenever it suits them. Why would they have to when they can just say "oh well, we've done it this way for the last hundred years, so it must be good.. Burn him at the stake!!" If these so-called Judeo-Christian values are that important to the functioning of this country and were actually supported by the huge majority of the population as claimed, none of this would be at issue. Obviously there are a great number of people who have problems with this concept, not the least of which is described in the above paragraph.

If christians want respect and tolerance, they must also practice it. Who knows, maybe that'll even remind them to focus more on the core beliefs of the beings who they supposedly worship, and less on acting like the 'whiny liberals' they tend to hate so much. After all, when it comes to their laundry list of issues, they basically want the same type of governmental interference on society simply to suit their whims...

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

However, we now have a central bank, albeit a pseudo-privatized one, and that central bank should not be referencing theology in any manner, especially since we had all of our gold taken from us, and it's now illegal to require someone to pay their debts using gold or silver.

Gold is just as worthless as paper money.



The only reason you would accept it is because you know others will accept it. OMG the same shit as the Notes or any other form of currency.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Gold is just as worthless as paper money.



The only reason you would accept it is because you know others will accept it. OMG the same shit as the Notes or any other form of currency.

Not really. Gold has actual value, anywhere in the world. Our federal notes do not.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by lew

Not really. Gold has actual value, anywhere in the world. Our federal notes do not.

US currency backs other nation's currency just like Gold and silver does.


Gold is just a metal. The Notes are just fabric. Neither have any great intrinsic value, but are accepted because others will accept them.

[Dumpy Dooby]

You can't inflate the value of gold. You can't just go out and say, "Oh, I'm going to print more gold now LOL"

Not only do others accept them, but the Constitution DEMANDS that only gold and silver be accepted as official United States currency.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

No and No.

I guess when you get elected and have some influence of what goes on the money you can work that out. Your arm is not being twited to become a Christian just because the Nation recognizes a contribution of religious values that happen to be Judeo-Christian to the founding of this nation. Funny how so many Christians in this nation and all over Europe give respect to the freedom to worship as one choses but get so little in return?

see, people still fail to look beyond any values as christian..

just because the 10 commandments falls within current laws doesn't mean you can assume anything.

In fact, our government is based more upon former polytheistic nations than anything else.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

see, people still fail to look beyond any values as christian..

just because the 10 commandments falls within current laws doesn't mean you can assume anything.

In fact, our government is based more upon former polytheistic nations than anything else.

Not to mention the Ten Commendments doesn't fall within our current laws. We got theft and murder in there, but nothing else (that I can think of off the top of my head) as far as criminal law goes. Adultry plays a big part in civil law. Worshipping false gods, saying god's name in vain, working on the Sabbath, etc., doesn't exist in our lawbooks.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

You can't inflate the value of gold. You can't just go out and say, "Oh, I'm going to print more gold now LOL"

Release more gold into the market= inflation.

Not only do others accept them, but the Constitution DEMANDS that only gold and silver be accepted as official United States currency.

false.

It says STATES cannot make any money legal tender except for Gold or silver.




Congress can make any kind of coin money it wants to. Paper money isnt mentioned at all but through the "necessary and proper" cause one can assume that if coin money is ok paper money isnt a problem.

[Diamond Cross]

If the Ten commandments were real laws, it'd be a violation of First Ammendment rights, only four of them have to do with true morality and the rest are instructions for the worship of God.