First Muslim Congressman to swear in on Thomas Jefferson's Koran

Thorgrim · 01-03-2007, 02:57 PM

Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, found himself under attack last month when he announced he'd take his oath of office on the Koran -- especially from Virginia Rep. Virgil Goode, who called it a threat to American values.

Yet the holy book at tomorrow's ceremony has an unassailably all-American provenance. We've learned that the new congressman -- in a savvy bit of political symbolism -- will hold the personal copy once owned by Thomas Jefferson

Yeah, but what about a Koran that belonged to one of the greatest Virginians in history? Goode, who represents Jefferson's birthplace of Albemarle County, had no comment yesterday.

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

That is the end of all this talk of tradition, there is very little more traditional in American politics than swearing in on one of Thomas Jefferson's Holy Books

ballz2wallz · 01-03-2007, 03:17 PM

Thomas Jefferson is obviously the end-all say-all. I mean, if Jefferson said it or did it, it must be ok!!!

Didn't he have sex with his slaves?

Thorgrim · 01-03-2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Thomas Jefferson is obviously the end-all say-all. I mean, if Jefferson said it or did it, it must be ok!!!

Didn't he have sex with his slaves?

Where's a lighter so we can burn that damn Declaration of Indepedence

Even though he's dead, can we still impeach him, for being such a terrible statesmen, truely America would have been a better place if he never would have been born

Scrum · 01-03-2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, found himself under attack last month when he announced he'd take his oath of office on the Koran -- especially from Virginia Rep. Virgil Goode, who called it a threat to American values.

Yet the holy book at tomorrow's ceremony has an unassailably all-American provenance. We've learned that the new congressman -- in a savvy bit of political symbolism -- will hold the personal copy once owned by Thomas Jefferson

Yeah, but what about a Koran that belonged to one of the greatest Virginians in history? Goode, who represents Jefferson's birthplace of Albemarle County, had no comment yesterday.

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

That is the end of all this talk of tradition, there is very little more traditional in American politics than swearing in on one of Thomas Jefferson's Holy Books

imind · 01-03-2007, 05:10 PM

Didn't he have sex with his slaves?

yes, and so too shall i with mine, goddamnit!!

cheers to the rookie for having so much savvy. we have learned from the comments of others that it really has nothing to do with american culture, but rather christian culture that people are worried about.

DosEquis · 01-03-2007, 05:16 PM

Well....Thomas Jefferson was considered a terrorist... to the british.

lew · 01-03-2007, 05:37 PM

Shoot, I'd swear on Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Koran!

DosEquis · 01-03-2007, 06:18 PM

That is fucking

if i have ever seen it.

Diamond Cross · 01-03-2007, 06:45 PM

I never knew T. J. even had a Koran. Veddy veddy interestink I tink.

RMNIXON · 01-03-2007, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

I never knew T. J. even had a Koran. Veddy veddy interestink I tink.

I am sure Jefferson owned many books on a variety of religious and philosophical subjects.

But no tradition is being broken because they don't get sworn in on any book. That is the misperception that Ellison himself started. I have no objection if he wants to hold a Koran as long as his first and foremost loyalty is to the United States.

RMNIXON · 01-03-2007, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Thomas Jefferson is obviously the end-all say-all. I mean, if Jefferson said it or did it, it must be ok!!!

"I have sworn upon the Altar of God Eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

-Thomas Jefferson

So I don't think he would be all that accommodating to much of the Muslim political world in our time!

Thorgrim · 01-03-2007, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

"I have sworn upon the Altar of God Eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

-Thomas Jefferson

So I don't think he would be all that accommodating to much of the Muslim political world in our time!

Oh yeah, Jefferson refused to deal with all the tyrannical governments

OH WAIT, HE DEALT WITH NAPOLEON and every other tyrant he could possibly get to have an audience with his government

imind · 01-03-2007, 08:32 PM

So I don't think he would be all that accommodating to much of the Muslim political world in our time!

nor the christian.

AntiCentrist · 01-03-2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Thomas Jefferson is obviously the end-all say-all. I mean, if Jefferson said it or did it, it must be ok!!!

Didn't he have sex with his slaves?

Don't be a clown; Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest Americans of all time. IF he had sex with the slave woman Sally Hemmings, its widely believed to have been consensual anyway; they were certainly quite friendly. Most historians believe the mulatto children at Jefferson's plantation were fathered by Jefferson's nephew anyway.

I'm so tired of people trying to dismiss Thomas Jefferson by referring to a rumour that he did the wild thing with someone they think he shouldn't have. Its like taking Germany's side in the Second World War because Churchill used to drink too much.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-03-2007, 11:12 PM

Swearing in on any religious book is ridiculous, perhaps having someone swear in on the Koran is just what this country needs to wake up the far right so they realize you can't have religion in government only when its YOUR religion as they do so often.

ballz2wallz · 01-04-2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by AntiCentrist

Don't be a clown; Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest Americans of all time. IF he had sex with the slave woman Sally Hemmings, its widely believed to have been consensual anyway; they were certainly quite friendly. Most historians believe the mulatto children at Jefferson's plantation were fathered by Jefferson's nephew anyway.

I'm so tired of people trying to dismiss Thomas Jefferson by referring to a rumour that he did the wild thing with someone they think he shouldn't have. Its like taking Germany's side in the Second World War because Churchill used to drink too much.

Hardly the point of my post.

Thomas Jefferson is oft used as the scape-goat for many reasons. Here, in this thread, he's used as an example that our American history has Muslim influence, from one of the founding fathers no less. Most often he is used as an example that our country was not founded on Christian principles, citing his deistic beliefs. All the while, of course, these people forget everything else about him that goes against what they argue. For example, they forget pretty much every quote or writing by him that supports Christianity, especially its involvement in our government and country. They forget that he wasn't quite the 'upstanding man' that they make him out to be; he did afterall have slaves. But that means nothing right? That only matters to the dirty racists southerners that they so love to hate, and point out their support of slavery.

It is my guess that Jefferson was a well-educated and literary man who had an eclectic collection of literature, which obviously included a copy of the Koran. Does this mean he read it, believed it, supported it, or worshipped it in any way? Hardly. This is a feable attempt to suggest that Islam has been a part of American culture, and should be accepted as such. It's wrong.

It wasn't one of his 'Holy Books' as the OP suggests, it was merely a piece in his library.

Thorgrim · 01-04-2007, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

It wasn't one of his 'Holy Books' as the OP suggests, it was merely a piece in his library.

Baseless speculation

It was a holy book and he did own it, those are the facts...trying to say it was "merely a piece in his collection" is a theory with no facts

ballz2wallz · 01-04-2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Baseless speculation

Hardly; there is too much to support Jefferson't support of Christianity and its role in the country and the Government. I know for a fact he didn't read the Koran and regard it as a Holy book. He merely had it as a piece in his library, just as many people I know have collections of books they don't necessarily believe in.

Thorgrim · 01-04-2007, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Hardly; there is too much to support Jefferson't support of Christianity and its role in the country and the Government. I know for a fact he didn't read the Koran and regard it as a Holy book. He merely had it as a piece in his library, just as many people I know have collections of books they don't necessarily believe in.

link to proof

PetriW · 01-04-2007, 02:27 PM

I have a koran, a bible and several other religious books in my collection, one day maybe someone will use that as an excuse to label me a terrorist hindu or something.

I agree with 6SpeedTA95, swearing on a religious book is ridiculous.