Cnn/dobbs: W Fulfills His Dad's Dream Of a New World Order

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

it doesnt bother me one bit as long as the govt is still a free Republic.


They bought it. Isnt that the basis of a free market ? The ability to buy things. Plus we no longer have to maintain the roads.

The government cannot be a free republic if it does not have power to control its borders. A government without borders is like a car without wheels: it won't work. If we cannot protect our own borders and decide who and what does or doesn't come in here then how can we call ourselves a country? If we do not even own our own roads and ports then how can we call ourselves a country?

Having a free market does not mean selling everything the tax payers paid for off to foreign corporations. It does not mean dissolving our borders and shipping in anyone in the world who wants to come here. Having a free market does not = having your country ran by unaccountable, unelected, financial elites. That is just being owned. There is nothing free about being owned.

We do have to maintain the roads. What do you think that 45 cents a gallon on gasoline is for? Have you heard about that decreasing? We paid for them to be built here in Austin and we are gonna pay to maintain them.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

And the superhighway will be built partially from private investors. And the private company will be required to maintain it, so why shouldnt they be allowed to collect the tolls ?
that is false. The Fed pays back something like 95% of all the money they get from that interest. got to start somewhere.

Chinese companys are far from perfect competition but they arent slave labor. Where did you get that idea ?

China has millions of people in work camps. They publicly execute people. Their workers sign contracts up to 20 years sometimes. This is all public. It is all state ran. It is Agenda 21 and is ran hand in hand with corporations like Wal-Mart.

link

Private companies did not build the roads themselves. They got tax money to do that with. They got the government's help in forcing the people on that land to sell. They do not 100% maintain the roads. Again, tax money is doing that. That is not free market. When you start throwing tax money into the equation and setting up government sponsored oligopolies then you no longer have free market. But selling your country away road by road is just selling your country; it doesn't mean it's a free market. Because as I demonstrated here, it clearly isn't.

And if we have to start somewhere then slavery and shipping in slave goods should not be that place.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

no you didnt. NAFTA has nothing to do with the United Nations.

NAFTA falls under the WTO.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow. But as I said, do your homework. NAFTA is a United Nations program. The WTO is United Nations. The WTO operates under the world bank(see Bretton Woods Conference of 1944)

Here is one on NAFTA and the WTO working together.

link

'At issue is whether NAFTA or the World Trade Organization (WTO) rules will pertain in trade disputes over protective measures'

link to scc


'Chapter 9 of NAFTA reaffirms that North American countries will uphold the rights and obligations of the WTO/TBT agreement; and'


Everything is under the international banking umbrella.

edit: Also, what you said regarding the Federal Reserve and what they "give back" shows you have no idea how wealth is controlled or how debt works. I know that sounds harsh but I'm not trying to insult you. I have learned a lot from your posts. I'll throw up a movie for you to watch later on it.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

The government cannot be a free republic if it does not have power to control its borders. A government without borders is like a car without wheels: it won't work. If we cannot protect our own borders and decide who and what does or doesn't come in here then how can we call ourselves a country? If we do not even own our own roads and ports then how can we call ourselves a country?

They are private roads. And we never considered selling the ports, the cities/counties own the ports. The only thing that was going to happen was the UAE company was going to take over day to day controls over the logistics that is now being done by a British company.

Having a free market does not mean selling everything the tax payers paid for off to foreign corporations. It does not mean dissolving our borders and shipping in anyone in the world who wants to come here. Having a free market does not = having your country ran by unaccountable, unelected, financial elites. That is just being owned. There is nothing free about being owned.

?? Free market means everything is for sell. Why should we pay to run that massive new superhighway when we can get a private company to do it for us. And if you dont like a private company running the road, dont use it.

We do have to maintain the roads. What do you think that 45 cents a gallon on gasoline is for? Have you heard about that decreasing? We paid for them to be built here in Austin and we are gonna pay to maintain them.

yes the roads. But not the superhighway that we are talking about. It is being built with both public and private money. The company is going to control all operations once it is built and they are responsible for the upkeep.


And the saddest part about your argument is that 45cents per gallon isnt enough for most states to keep their roads in good shape. But jump on the toll roads and they are damned near perfect.



So how is it a problem for people to volunteerly get on a private highway and pay a toll for the maintance ?

China has millions of people in work camps. They publicly execute people. Their workers sign contracts up to 20 years sometimes. This is all public. It is all state ran. It is Agenda 21 and is ran hand in hand with corporations like Wal-Mart.

I wouldnt doubt there are forced labor camps, but those arent the norm. Do some research, China has millions of private employers.

Private companies did not build the roads themselves. They got tax money to do that with. They got the government's help in forcing the people on that land to sell.

And public money has been spent on private stadiums.

They do not 100% maintain the roads. Again, tax money is doing that.

completely false. Not a dime of public money goes to the private roads for daily operations.
This is being done all over Europe very successfully. It has been done in the US with bridges and tunnels. The Chicago toll road was just leased for $1.8 billion over the next 100 years. They arent getting taxpayer money.

That is not free market. When you start throwing tax money into the equation and setting up government sponsored oligopolies then you no longer have free market. But selling your country away road by road is just selling your country; it doesn't mean it's a free market. Because as I demonstrated here, it clearly isn't.

And if we have to start somewhere then slavery and shipping in slave goods should not be that place.

NAFTA falls under the WTO.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow. But as I said, do your homework. NAFTA is a United Nations program. The WTO is United Nations. The WTO operates under the world bank(see Bretton Woods Conference of 1944)

Here is one on NAFTA and the WTO working together.

link

NAFTA and the WHO working together doesnt meant NAFTA is controlled by the UN

'At issue is whether NAFTA or the World Trade Organization (WTO) rules will pertain in trade disputes over protective measures'

link to scc


'Chapter 9 of NAFTA reaffirms that North American countries will uphold the rights and obligations of the WTO/TBT agreement; and'


Everything is under the international banking umbrella.

edit: Also, what you said regarding the Federal Reserve and what they "give back" shows you have no idea how wealth is controlled or how debt works. I know that sounds harsh but I'm not trying to insult you. I have learned a lot from your posts. I'll throw up a movie for you to watch later on it.

Do you want their freaking financials ?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardd...ual05/ar05.pdf

page 278
Income from US Treasury: 28,958 million
Net income: 23,520 million
Paid to US treasury: 21,457 million

They paid 91% of their income back to the treasury. 74% of the total money that they got, but that includes their expenses and to reimburse them for the fact that we make them set aside a reserve. Is 9% profit too much ?

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

They are private roads. And we never considered selling the ports, the cities/counties own the ports. The only thing that was going to happen was the UAE company was going to take over day to day controls over the logistics that is now being done by a British company. ?? Free market means everything is for sell. Why should we pay to run that massive new superhighway when we can get a private company to do it for us. And if you dont like a private company running the road, dont use it. yes the roads. But not the superhighway that we are talking about. It is being built with both public and private money. The company is going to control all operations once it is built and they are responsible for the upkeep.

The problem here is that you're taking public land(taxpayer land) that was also developed by taxpayers and selling it to corporations. You're also talking about eminent domain being used. So clearly this is not a case of people willingly selling their land or a case of the free market. This is government involvement, not free market.

I have no problems with buying and selling and wish in some ways there were more property rights but not everything in a country should be for sell. Selling out your infrastructure like your ports and roads is destroying your national sovereignty and you can rest assured that none of these politicians are doing this because of whatever belief system they pretend to uphold while on T.V.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

And the saddest part about your argument is that 45cents per gallon isnt enough for most states to keep their roads in good shape. But jump on the toll roads and they are damned near perfect.



So how is it a problem for people to volunteerly get on a private highway and pay a toll for the maintance ?

When did I say 45 cents a gallon wasn't enough? I pointed out we're still paying as much taxes on the roads as we always have.

The problem, again, is that this is not voluntary for most people. They must drive to work. You are using land that was taken a lot of the times from eminent domain. You are talking about something almost everyone must do: travel. And now they are selling existing roads to corporations. So this is not going to be a matter of choice for a lot of people. They are now taking roads that were already built and putting tolls on them.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

I wouldnt doubt there are forced labor camps, but those arent the norm. Do some research, China has millions of private employers.

And public money has been spent on private stadiums. completely false. Not a dime of public money goes to the private roads for daily operations.
This is being done all over Europe very successfully. It has been done in the US with bridges and tunnels. The Chicago toll road was just leased for $1.8 billion over the next 100 years. They arent getting taxpayer money.

No, it is the norm. China admits it has millions in work camps. But it doesn't surprise me that someone that defends the largest government this country has ever seen would defend the Chinese government.

And public money is spent on these tolls. I've already pointed out the eminent domain, forcing people to sell. That is free market? That is choice? The government making you sell your land is 'free' now? Look up something called 'shadowing'


Pass Through Financing - Also known as shadow tolling in the toll road industry. A local entity, like a city and/or county, pays for the road project and the Department of Transportation pays the local entities back based on the number of cars that “pass through” equipment which counts the number of cars (basically like tolling). The problem with this approach is that local gvernment has to use its tax money, like property tax, to pay for improvements to STATE highways. We already pay numerous fees for highways, not the least of which is the gas tax. This is another way the State is abdicating its role and responsibility to build and maintain our State highways.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

NAFTA and the WHO working together doesnt meant NAFTA is controlled by the UN

I don't know how many times I have to tell you. Clearly, your denial runs deep. NAFTA works directly under the World Bank(UN). NAFTA works under and with the WTO. It is a United Nations trade program. If you want to argue over what the definition of 'is' is then that's fine but NAFTA, according to the legislation itself, as I've already sourced you to, operates under the WTO and World Bank.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Do you want their freaking financials ?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardd...ual05/ar05.pdf

page 278
Income from US Treasury: 28,958 million
Net income: 23,520 million
Paid to US treasury: 21,457 million

They paid 91% of their income back to the treasury. 74% of the total money that they got, but that includes their expenses and to reimburse them for the fact that we make them set aside a reserve. Is 9% profit too much ?

I knew you'd do something like this. You don't have a fundamental understanding of how banking works. What is money? Money, when it's not backed by something tangible, is simply an IOU note. The U.S. dollar is not backed by gold or silver or anything else. It is simply backed by good faith in the U.S. and its force.

The Federal Reserve is owned by private banking families. The money that those families prints up is created out of nothing. It is about the same as me handing out monopoly money. It's paper money. Since our central bank is controlled by private bankers, they also have control over our economy, that operates under that system. This is why in the Constitution they gave the power to coin money to congress, not private bankers. Read some history on Jefferson and his battles with the private banking families, the same dynasties that now control our central bank.

But if you are printing up money out of nothing, anything gained on that is a profit. And almost all of the gold we used to have in our actual reserves has been shipped out to Europe because of the massive debt we owe to the Federal Reserve. We pay interest on that daily. The Federal Reserve is a for profit, private, organization. If you don't understand how it works then you start quoting ridiculous paragraphs, like the one you quoted there, because you do not realize the tangible goods gained/lost through this system.

[7960]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

You're also talking about eminent domain being used. So clearly this is not a case of people willingly selling their land or a case of the free market.

You are using land that was taken a lot of the times from eminent domain.

I've seen you say this a few times now but not back it up. Show me.

They are now taking roads that were already built and putting tolls on them.

Where?

And public money is spent on these tolls. I've already pointed out the eminent domain, forcing people to sell.

Again (like above) show me. From what I've seen in my local and state govt *MOST* of the land is not taken by eminent domain. *MOST* of the land was bought by the town or state. A few pieces were taken, yes, but every story I read and heard about (small town, people talk) was because most neighbors got $xx,000 for their land and the last guy held out thinking he'd make a killing. So the EXTREMELY FEW times land was "taken" the owner actually did get fair value, he did not get twice as much as the rest because he waited until everyone else sold.

The Federal Reserve is owned by private banking families.

Families?

Since our central bank is controlled by private bankers,

Well, not it's not so the rest of your statements about it are also false.

And almost all of the gold we used to have in our actual reserves has been shipped out to Europe

The gold has been shipped? Show me.


I see you making a lot of claims but I don't see much supporting them. How about a link or two because even a stupid wiki article on the federal reserve system says about half your "claims" are full of shit.

[MKULTRA]

Why the hostile attitude? I am not your enemy here. You ask me for links on things you can easily look up. You say "show me" but maybe you should try knowing what you're talking about if you're going to attack someone for their beliefs on it. Or maybe you should learn how to use a search engine instead of coming on a thread asking for source after source while insulting me on what is common knowledge. And I don't advocate that everything on Wiki is true but if I see a well-sourced Wiki article that supports my claim then I'll link it. If you have an issue with a source or article I link then try bringing it up on that thread and pointing out the specific issue with it.

The laws are different in every state but here is a page that outlines the Federal and then state laws in IL that allow for every existing interstate there to be tolled.

All Indiana Interstates and roads can be tolled and privatized

Here is an article from congressman Ron Paul on the use of eminent domain and the NAFTA superhighway being built.

The NAFTA Superhighway

Here is a chart showing the ownership of the Federal Reserve. Again, you curse at me in your post when it's obvious you have never once looked into this. And I have no issues with people being wrong. I've been wrong on here before and undoubtedly will again but I don't go around cursing at people and acting the fool denying something I've never even bothered to take 5 minutes out of my life to read up on.

Federal Reserve Bank, ownership - The Lawful Path

I would suggest also reading this book, which tells the story of how our lawful and constitutional central bank was replaced by the one we have now, shortly before the Great Depression.

Amazon.com: The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve: Books: G. Edward Griffin

You can also take a look at some of the redbacks JFK and Lincoln printed.

Here is an article back from the 30s, when this was going on at its peak, about the Federal Reserve shipping our gold out and what a congressman had to say about it then.

The Federal Reserve: An Astounding Exposure 1934

I hope that helps. I took the time to recommend books and post links to congressional testimony. I hope you take the time to read them before you reply. Like I said, I'm not your enemy here.

[7960]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

Why the hostile attitude? I am not your enemy here.

That remains to be seen.

You ask me for links on things you can easily look up. You say "show me" but maybe you should try knowing what you're talking about if you're going to attack someone for their beliefs on it. Or maybe you should learn how to use a search engine instead of coming on a thread asking for source after source while insulting me on what is common knowledge.

"Common knowledge"? If it's so common why aren't the things I pointed out sourced? They should be easy to find.

Oh, and the reason I said "show me" is because you DO NOT get to come and make a blanket statement without backing it up. Unless you wouldn't mind me posting that we actually dig up a little tiny bit of gold before printing every dollar and then telling you "go look it up."

And I don't advocate that everything on Wiki is true but if I see a well-sourced Wiki article that supports my claim then I'll link it.

Then why didn't you link to a well-sourced wiki article?

If you have an issue with a source or article I link then try bringing it up on that thread and pointing out the specific issue with it.

I did.

The laws are different in every state but here is a page that outlines the Federal and then state laws in IL that allow for every existing interstate there to be tolled.

All Indiana Interstates and roads can be tolled and privatized

"can" ... "could have"....... I just read an article yesterday that said an interpretation of the adultery laws in michigan *could* result in life in jail............. get back to me when it happens.

Here is an article from congressman Ron Paul on the use of eminent domain and the NAFTA superhighway being built.

The NAFTA Superhighway

I was talking about eminent domain the way it's being used, but anyway, that was a nice rant about how a highway is going to ruin our national sovereignty by creating a north american union with one currency.......woo-hoo!! No over-reaction there

Here is a chart showing the ownership of the Federal Reserve. Again, you curse at me in your post when it's obvious you have never once looked into this. And I have no issues with people being wrong. I've been wrong on here before and undoubtedly will again but I don't go around cursing at people and acting the fool denying something I've never even bothered to take 5 minutes out of my life to read up on.

Federal Reserve Bank, ownership - The Lawful Path

Chart 1 is linear?

Anyway, owning the bank doesn't mean "controlling the economy" as you've said. Read (link). It's not like they can make decisions without oversight.

I would suggest also reading this book, which tells the story of how our lawful and constitutional central bank was replaced by the one we have now, shortly before the Great Depression.

Amazon.com: The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve: Books: G. Edward GriffinGriffin? The same griffin that believes the govt is hiding the cure for cancer? I'd like a little more of an authoritative source, please.

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by 7960

That remains to be seen.
"Common knowledge"? If it's so common why aren't the things I pointed out sourced? They should be easy to find.

It's just you don't know anything on the subjects you're commenting on. If you did, you'd know the Fed is owned by private bankers and you'd know our actual gold reserves have been shipped out. Anyone who has done any research on the matter knows these things. But just in case you didn't before, I've now sourced you to congressional testimony on the subject. And I have no problems with ignorance and don't claim to be an expert in all things, it's just that your poor attitude towards everything you comment on(which coincidentally seems to be all the things you know nothing about) is a bit overwhelming.

Originally Posted by 7960

Oh, and the reason I said "show me" is because you DO NOT get to come and make a blanket statement without backing it up. Unless you wouldn't mind me posting that we actually dig up a little tiny bit of gold before printing every dollar and then telling you "go look it up."
Then why didn't you link to a well-sourced wiki article?
I did.
"can" ... "could have"....... I just read an article yesterday that said an interpretation of the adultery laws in michigan *could* result in life in jail............. get back to me when it happens.

Now I've sourced you to a page, that you didn't bother to read, that Congressman Ron Paul wrote about eminent domain being used to seize lands to build all of these toll roads. The toll roads and the superhighways are being built. I've sourced you to a video on CNN saying the superhighways/tolls are being built. I've sourced you to a page, full of references to the legislation itself, showing you that the tolls are being built and still you deny and ask for more sources, while providing none yourself. Do you see the irony here?

Originally Posted by 7960

I was talking about eminent domain the way it's being used, but anyway, that was a nice rant about how a highway is going to ruin our national sovereignty by creating a north american union with one currency.......woo-hoo!! No over-reaction there
Chart 1 is linear?

Like I said, read the article written by Ron Paul and watch the CNN video, you know, the one that I started this thread with? And 'linear' doesn't just mean left to right. This is so cowardly, that you would ignore the facts presented, that you can look up anywhere, and then argue over the meaning of a word, that you obviously have never bothered to look up in a dictionary.

Originally Posted by 7960

Anyway, owning the bank doesn't mean "controlling the economy" as you've said. Read (link). It's not like they can make decisions without oversight.

The same griffin that believes the govt is hiding the cure for cancer? I'd like a little more of an authoritative source, please.

Everything operates under the bank. But if you want more proof look at Jekyll Island itself. I have been there. It's a tourist spot that anyone can go visit and all the plaques and memorials admitting the meetings between the Rothschilds, Warburgs, etc are all there on display. Or you could just look up the Federal Reserve Act and take the initiative yourself, instead of having me spoon feed you all this stuff because I have a feeling this source game will go on forever. In fact, let's see what President Woodrow Wilson had to say about it:

"I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but the Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominated men."

Also, as I said, read up on what Jefferson said about it. The Federal Reserve is a for profit establishment and as the congressional testimony I've already sourced you to shows, it has already shipped out millions of pounds of gold from this country. But our schools, nor our media, teach anyone anything about banking and how it operates so people have no basic understanding of how we are charged interest on our own currency and then how that dept is then collected. Private bankers are businessmen, not charity workers.

And I'm not getting railed off on the cancer topic but if you want to start a thread on that then by all means, go for it.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

The problem here is that you're taking public land(taxpayer land) that was also developed by taxpayers and selling it to corporations.

AND ? The toll roads in Indiana and Illinois are great examples. The states couldnt afford to keep them in great shape but this private company can.

You're also talking about eminent domain being used. So clearly this is not a case of people willingly selling their land or a case of the free market. This is government involvement, not free market.

eminent domain has long been used for large scale public works projects. Why is it an issue now ?

When did I say 45 cents a gallon wasn't enough? I pointed out we're still paying as much taxes on the roads as we always have.

Well we still have to maintain millions of miles of roads and highways. Did you think the couple hundred miles sold to private companies would have made a visable change ?

The problem, again, is that this is not voluntary for most people. They must drive to work. You are using land that was taken a lot of the times from eminent domain. You are talking about something almost everyone must do: travel. And now they are selling existing roads to corporations. So this is not going to be a matter of choice for a lot of people. They are now taking roads that were already built and putting tolls on them.

There are public roads they can take. Or they can volunteerly pay to use the private ones. And if you check out the private roads, they are loved by the people. Fast, well maintained, etc....

No, it is the norm. China admits it has millions in work camps. But it doesn't surprise me that someone that defends the largest government this country has ever seen would defend the Chinese government.

You should start reading something besides CT sites. There are millions of privately owned factories in China.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you. Clearly, your denial runs deep. NAFTA works directly under the World Bank(UN). NAFTA works under and with the WTO. It is a United Nations trade program. If you want to argue over what the definition of 'is' is then that's fine but NAFTA, according to the legislation itself, as I've already sourced you to, operates under the WTO and World Bank.

Well since you havent posted anything that even claims half that, try again. NAFTA is not under the control of the WTO or the UN.

I knew you'd do something like this. You don't have a fundamental understanding of how banking works. What is money? Money, when it's not backed by something tangible, is simply an IOU note. The U.S. dollar is not backed by gold or silver or anything else. It is simply backed by good faith in the U.S. and its force.

No. Money is simply something that can be exchanged for goods and services. The more likely the money will be accepted and the more likely it will keep its current value makes it worth something. Nations back their currency with the US dollar just like we used to back ours with gold or silver. Think for a second, what is gold. A piece of metal that has little value to the normal person. Sure you can use it for jewlry or electronics. But that isnt the reason it is worth $800 an ounce. It is worth $800 an ounce because you know you can trade it for goods and services and everyone will take it.

The Federal Reserve is owned by private banking families.

false. It is owned by corporations.

The money that those families prints up is created out of nothing.

false.

It is about the same as me handing out monopoly money. It's paper money.

you couldnt give away your money. But people around the world take American dollars.

Since our central bank is controlled by private bankers, they also have control over our economy, that operates under that system. This is why in the Constitution they gave the power to coin money to congress, not private bankers.

and congress still coins money. But when was the last time you bought something with coins ?

But if you are printing up money out of nothing, anything gained on that is a profit.

And Congress makes a shit load of profit from the coining of money.

And almost all of the gold we used to have in our actual reserves has been shipped out to Europe because of the massive debt we owe to the Federal Reserve.

We have a massive debt because Congress and our Presidents love to spend money. It has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. And when in the hell did we remove our gold from Fort Knox ?

We pay interest on that daily. The Federal Reserve is a for profit, private, organization. If you don't understand how it works then you start quoting ridiculous paragraphs, like the one you quoted there, because you do not realize the tangible goods gained/lost through this system.

[7960]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

It's just you don't know anything on the subjects you're commenting on. If you did, you'd know the Fed is owned by private bankers and you'd know our actual gold reserves have been shipped out.

I know how the fed works but what you're implying (saying, actually) is wrong. You're saying the banks are privately owned so those private people control the economy. You're completely ignoring the oversight. Those bankers can not make a decision without scrutiny.

Anyone who has done any research on the matter knows these things.

Bullshit. If you want to say all the gold has been shipped out I expect you to prove it, not say "everyone knows" or "it's common knowledge."

Bullshit.

But just in case you didn't before, I've now sourced you to congressional testimony on the subject.

Where?

Now I've sourced you to a page, that you didn't bother to read, that Congressman Ron Paul wrote about eminent domain being used to seize lands to build all of these toll roads. The toll roads and the superhighways are being built. I've sourced you to a video on CNN saying the superhighways/tolls are being built. I've sourced you to a page, full of references to the legislation itself, showing you that the tolls are being built and still you deny and ask for more sources, while providing none yourself. Do you see the irony here?

Maybe the irony you're missing is the fact that Paul's article is bitching about what CAN happen, not what IS happening.

But since you're intentionally stupid I'll quote it for you here:

Any Indiana Governor, could have toll/ leased, any Indiana roads or the whole system, for any length of time, to any body, for any amount of money, for up to 99 years.

Like I said, read the article written by Ron Paul and watch the CNN video, you know, the one that I started this thread with? And 'linear' doesn't just mean left to right. This is so cowardly, that you would ignore the facts presented, that you can look up anywhere, and then argue over the meaning of a word, that you obviouly have never bothered to look up in a dictionary.

Seriously, why are you being such an asshole? I've asked 4 times now for you to source information and you keep coming back with "look it up." I read Paul's article. He talks about what MAY happen. He is not talking about what *IS* happening.

.....and as the congressional testimony I've already sourced you to shows, it has already shipped out millions of pounds of gold from this country.

You posted one person's account. Is there anyone to back up his claim?

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

AND ? The toll roads in Indiana and Illinois are great examples. The states couldnt afford to keep them in great shape but this private company can.

eminent domain has long been used for large scale public works projects. Why is it an issue now ?
Well we still have to maintain millions of miles of roads and highways. Did you think the couple hundred miles sold to private companies would have made a visable change ?
There are public roads they can take. Or they can volunteerly pay to use the private ones. And if you check out the private roads, they are loved by the people. Fast, well maintained, etc....

This is not just a couple hundred miles. The NAFTA superhighways go from Mexico to Canada. And IL, of all states, could've easily afforded to pay for their roads. If other, far more populous states have done it for decades then so can IL. If they're not then that's a management issue, but it doesn't excuse tolling people and double taxation, which is what is happening. I don't think the tolls are well loved by the people. They're certainly not well loved here. Now I know people that like them. And certainly, they do have their benefits. But I think this is a different animal than state ran tolls or localized instances of corporations operating tolls. You're talking about the backbone of this country being owned by foreign and international corporations. And you're talking about people's land being taken for private development on new laws recently passed and on a massive scale for a transformation that they're not really being told about. NAFTA has virtually destroyed this country's manufacturing base and when the NAU is complete then you are gonna see a lot of Americans out of work along with continuing loss in real wages and people with health care.

Now if you want to be in favor of using our own government to force people to sell their land to foreign corporations and you want to be in favor of double taxation then you have your reasons and certainly many of them are valid but let's be honest here about what is going on. This is the destruction of this country and the merger into the NAU.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

You should start reading something besides CT sites. There are millions of privately owned factories in China. Well since you havent posted anything that even claims half that, try again. NAFTA is not under the control of the WTO or the UN.

Do you even know what the BBC is? The BBC is one of the largest media outlets in the world. It is not a "CT site" The sources I use, many of them are alternative, but most of them are like what I've posted here, CNN, BBC, quotes from former presidents, etc. China uses slave workers, millions of them. This is a fact. This is one of the things we're competing against. Yes, they do have many legitimate factories over in China. I am not denying that. But I'm also not denying the slave labor they use either.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

No. Money is simply something that can be exchanged for goods and services. The more likely the money will be accepted and the more likely it will keep its current value makes it worth something. Nations back their currency with the US dollar just like we used to back ours with gold or silver. Think for a second, what is gold. A piece of metal that has little value to the normal person. Sure you can use it for jewlry or electronics. But that isnt the reason it is worth $800 an ounce. It is worth $800 an ounce because you know you can trade it for goods and services and everyone will take it.

Money is the control of energy. That is the bottom line. If you back it with gold and silver, those things retain their value. After the U.S. falls or after Cuba falls or wherever, that paper money is going to be worthless, just like old confederate dollars. That is not true with gold and other things. If money is backed by gold then that shows a country has actual wealth behind the paper money. It also stops a country from going far into debt, like the USSR did and like we are doing.

Now fiat currencies can and have been successful. I'm not arguing that. But again, you fail to understand the main premise here. The real problem with American money is that we are charged interest on it. That is because our central bank is owned by, as you said, private bankers. And do you really believe all of these 'corporations' as you said, do this for charity? Do you still think they do this and don't make a profit? I've already sourced you to congressional testimony showing the opposite.

Originally Posted by Diesel66

false. It is owned by corporations. false. you couldnt give away your money. But people around the world take American dollars. and congress still coins money. But when was the last time you bought something with coins ?
And Congress makes a shit load of profit from the coining of money. We have a massive debt because Congress and our Presidents love to spend money. It has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. And when in the hell did we remove our gold from Fort Knox ?

Those corporations are primarily family owned. They are controlled by private banking families. The Rothschilds have been doing this for hundreds of years. By congress 'coining money' that means they have the right to manufacture the currency, not just produce coins lol. Learn your Constitution. Research what Jefferson said. Look at what JFK did when he printed out Redbacks.

Just because congress coins the money, that doesn't mean they profit from that. That is not how the first central bank worked. And one of the reasons we have debt is because we have a fiat currency that we charge our own people interest own. It is impossible to operate on that system and not have a debt. In fact, its very nature ensures a large debt. Debt is great for bankers. It is not great(in extremes) for the people.

Read the testimony I sourced you to already on the gold. Much of it has been shipped out of this country.

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by 7960