Senate votes to fund the fence - Page 7

Kytro · 08-05-2006, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

the root of the problem is that their country sucks. as long as the US is better than mexico, they will continue to come here, even if they can't work. poverty here is WAY better than poverty in mexico.

The most effective way to deal with the problem isn't a fence.

At cost vs effectiveness it will be hugely expensive.

A better way is to deport.

Make is hugely expensive for businesses hiring illegals.

Seize all money/assets illegals have while in the US.

Deny them access welfare / government services,

That will slow the motivation down. Poverty in the US wouldn't be better then.

Concept · 08-05-2006, 01:46 AM

Question: Are deported illegals immigrants able to return to this country legally?

motivez · 08-05-2006, 07:24 AM

Why wouldn't they be?

I mean, they aren't detained or whatever after they're deported AFAIK. They can simply walk back over if they aren't caught.

Concept · 08-05-2006, 12:08 PM

No, I meant, if they're caught, can they come back and join legally?

ballz2wallz · 08-05-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

The most effective way to deal with the problem isn't a fence.

At cost vs effectiveness it will be hugely expensive.

A better way is to deport.

Make is hugely expensive for businesses hiring illegals.

Seize all money/assets illegals have while in the US.

Deny them access welfare / government services,

That will slow the motivation down. Poverty in the US wouldn't be better then.

yeah, deport them so they can turn around and come right back in

JaJae · 08-05-2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Concept

No, I meant, if they're caught, can they come back and join legally?

I don't know if they would or not. I would assume INS keeps a list, but I doubt they give their real identities regardless. That's the benefit of being an "undocumented" person in this country. We don't know who the fuck you are and we don't ever find out.

I mean how many people come in using Roberto Gomez or something as their name? Can you just not allow any Mexican by that name in the country ever again?

Concept · 08-05-2006, 05:49 PM

But then comes along honest Roberto Gomez who can't get into this country because some fucker came in with a false identity.

It's a difficult situation, really.

Kytro · 08-06-2006, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

yeah, deport them so they can turn around and come right back in

Did you completely ignore the other things I listed? Why would they come back?

I don't think the government will do it, but it amuses me you think a fence will do a better job.

The other alternative to deportation is imprisonment, but that really will cost alot more than simply managing the problem.

You will probably not stop all of them, but less people are going to risk it if the reward is less and the possibility of being caught is higher

Concept · 08-07-2006, 12:05 AM

Can't we just find someway to make the Rio Grande hospitable to Great White Sharks so that illegals will get torn to pieces?

No, I'm not serious.

Kytro · 08-07-2006, 12:09 AM

Do the nations states who want to be an immigrant thing - those who survive get to stay.

Concept · 08-07-2006, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kytro

Do the nations states who want to be an immigrant thing - those who survive get to stay.

motivez · 08-07-2006, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Concept

Can't we just find someway to make the Rio Grande hospitable to Great White Sharks so that illegals will get torn to pieces?

No, I'm not serious.

Some people have suggested things like landmines and whatnot and been completely serious about it

Concept · 08-07-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Some people have suggested things like landmines and whatnot and been completely serious about it

I've heard those ideas being suggested.

I think I should raise my proud flag, instead:

ballz2wallz · 08-07-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

Did you completely ignore the other things I listed? Why would they come back?

I don't think the government will do it, but it amuses me you think a fence will do a better job.

The other alternative to deportation is imprisonment, but that really will cost alot more than simply managing the problem.

You will probably not stop all of them, but less people are going to risk it if the reward is less and the possibility of being caught is higher

i think you've ignored absolutely everything i've said. a fence alone is not going to do a better job. a fence is part of the bigger solution, but necessary nonetheless.

it amuses me that you selectively read what i write.

Ardentfrost · 08-07-2006, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

i think you've ignored absolutely everything i've said. a fence alone is not going to do a better job. a fence is part of the bigger solution, but necessary nonetheless.

it amuses me that you selectively read what i write.

I think we've all read what you've said, but none of us can see how "other" things make the fence useful.

ballz2wallz · 08-07-2006, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I think we've all read what you've said, but none of us can see how "other" things make the fence useful.

nothing alone will solve the problem. nothing. only with a concoction of methods will success be seen. that's how.

Ardentfrost · 08-07-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

nothing alone will solve the problem. nothing. only with a concoction of methods will success be seen. that's how.

Yeah, but each has to contribute to a whole. The fence may contribute to a particular line of methodology, but unless you hope to have ground troops stationed along the border, immediate imprisonment/deportation of all illegal immigrants, PLUS a fence, then the fence is useless. And if you think THAT methodology is the best, then there is plenty of evidence (as we have pointed out) that other methods are cheaper and more efficient.

So, supporting a hybrid method is useless, because if you have a fence, then take away all incentive for them to come, then you've wasted a shit ton of money for nothing.

All this has been over in this thread more than once.

ballz2wallz · 08-07-2006, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, but each has to contribute to a whole. The fence may contribute to a particular line of methodology, but unless you hope to have ground troops stationed along the border, immediate imprisonment/deportation of all illegal immigrants, PLUS a fence, then the fence is useless. And if you think THAT methodology is the best, then there is plenty of evidence (as we have pointed out) that other methods are cheaper and more efficient.

now you're gettin it.

Ardentfrost · 08-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

now you're gettin it.

Right, and as we have pointed out, that is the LEAST efficient way of achieving this. Not only that, but it creates a military state and huge standing army (as if the one we have isn't big enough). Plus it reduces our rate of globalization and slows the economy.

ballz2wallz · 08-07-2006, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Right, and as we have pointed out, that is the LEAST efficient way of achieving this. Not only that, but it creates a military state and huge standing army (as if the one we have isn't big enough). Plus it reduces our rate of globalization and slows the economy.

i think it'll give the best results. and i don't think it'll slow the economy OR reduce the rate of globalization.

i don't care if we give off the impressoin of being a police state. the only people who will think that are the mexicans, and who cares what they think.