Study: Nicotine increasing in cigarettes

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

caffeine and alcohol are physical addictions

Find me any medical journal that says alcohol and caffeine have a stronger addiction control than high doses of nicotine

To make this example clearer, imagine going "I'm addicted to online gaming, I play practically everyday, so I think your whining about heroin is silly, we're both addicts"

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Find me any medical journal that says alcohol and caffeine have a stronger addiction control than high doses of nicotine

To make this example clearer, imagine going "I'm addicted to online gaming, I play practically everyday, so I think your whining about heroin is silly, we're both addicts"

They are both still addicts. Heroin destroys more lives but that doesn't negate the addiction that is prevalent in online gaming.


Poin is, government shouldn't be involved with trying to stop either.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

They are both still addicts. Heroin destroys more lives but that doesn't negate the addiction that is prevalent in online gaming.


Poin is, government shouldn't be involved with trying to stop either.

I'm sorry but I am sure any non-extreme libertarian will agree that online gaming and heroin are on a significantly different level, and you are just hurting your credibility for ever making an argument about addiction

"govt shouldn't be involved in x"

Thanks you didn't have to right that, we all know that from your ideological choice


Let's try something contructive

How would libertarians solve the problem of a distraught 13 year old going out and "choosing" to buy crack and becoming an addict

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm sorry but I am sure any non-extreme libertarian will agree that online gaming and heroin are on a significantly different level, and you are just hurting your credibility for ever making an argument about addiction

"govt shouldn't be involved in x"

Thanks you didn't have to right that, we all know that from your ideological choice


Let's try something contructive

How would libertarians solve the problem of a distraught 13 year old going out and "choosing" to buy crack and becoming an addict

I didn't state they were the same. Thanks though.

However, there are similiarites. People have killed each other over online games. And people have "wasted away" their lives playing the games non-stop. A couple comparisons to heroin exist.

To answer your "problem," you solve that one like you solve any problem - with information. If a person understands the consequences of heroin, they're likely not to engage into activity involving it. If they do choose to, however, then that is their choice. Wasting away your life is not necessarily a "bad thing."

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

How would libertarians solve the problem of a distraught 13 year old going out and "choosing" to buy crack and becoming an addict

Education over criminalization

It's kinda the same way you would encourage your 13 year old to continue in school rather than become a prostitute and make a few quick bucks. Children don't avoid prostitution because it's illegal, they avoid it because parents (usually) somehow keep their kids out of the business.

[Scrum]

I lean pretty libertarian when it comes to stuff like this. People need to be responsible for their own actions and the actions of their children. It's not the companies fault for making the product that kills you. It's your own fault for using it when you know it's bad. All they are doing is running a buisness off of vice. There are many companies out there and many vices.

If we were talking about this in the 50's there may be more credence to the argument. The tobacco companies paid doctors to say smoking was safe and kept conflicting reports as quiet as possible.

The more info we have, the more compleate the decision. We have pretty much all the info now.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Education over criminalization

It's kinda the same way you would encourage your 13 year old to continue in school rather than become a prostitute and make a few quick bucks. Children don't avoid prostitution because it's illegal, they avoid it because parents (usually) somehow keep their kids out of the business.

I would be fine with these substances being regulated like alcohol and tobacco.
The fact that we have a black market moving these things is what makes it easier for minors to get.

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Nicotine increasing in cigarettes - Smoking - MSNBC.com




If this is true, I feel they would be in violation of thier agreement, and it also seems to make more sense to me, as a smoker who has found it incresingly harder to quit.

meh, back on the patch again for a 2nd try next week anyway.

I gotta ask: what kind of weak minded fool has trouble NOT doing something? I mean, you have to go out of your way to toke on your deathstick. You KNOW the government is getting rich off your drug addiction. You KNOW the stuff is harmful to you, and provides no benefit whatsoever. It makes as much sense as shoving needles into your eyes, and bitching when the needle company makes them duller.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

I gotta ask: what kind of weak minded fool has trouble NOT doing something?

Don't act as if you are better than people who have addictions.

It makes you come off as an asshole.

Smoking does have a benefit. People like to do it.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

I didn't state they were the same. Thanks though.

However, there are similiarites. People have killed each other over online games. And people have "wasted away" their lives playing the games non-stop. A couple comparisons to heroin exist.

To answer your "problem," you solve that one like you solve any problem - with information. If a person understands the consequences of heroin, they're likely not to engage into activity involving it. If they do choose to, however, then that is their choice. Wasting away your life is not necessarily a "bad thing."

That 13 year olds can have an informed decision to end their life is exactly why libertarians pull in 0.6% on a good year

You see, people are full of compassion, love is the strongest emotion, just because you have locked away all these typed out these little usenet libertarian FAQs and shut off part of your human side does not mean most of us are willing or able to do such a thing

Even if libertarians did gain power (which is a near impossibility) conservatives and liberals, and a good deal of moderates would unite to violently overthrow it

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

That 13 year olds can have an informed decision to end their life is exactly why libertarians pull in 0.6% on a good year

You see, people are full of compassion, love is the strongest emotion, just because you have locked away all these typed out these little usenet libertarian FAQs and shut off part of your human side does not mean most of us are willing or able to do such a thing

Even if libertarians did gain power (which is a near impossibility) conservatives and liberals, and a good deal of moderates would unite to violently overthrow it

Jesus titty fucking christ you're an idiot.

I'm full of compassion. Most libertarians are. However, we are full of true compassion, where WE help out others. We're not hypocritical liberals who sprout off about how we want to help our common man, yet put the responsibility to help on the government.

[Thorgrim]

There's nothing compassionate about watching children throw away their lives or die while chanting the mantra of "personal responsibility"

You are walking along a street, and a little girl trips on a rock and falls face down in a puddle, unconscious. Almost everyone would agree you have a duty to help her, but others, without compassion, would say there is nothing wrong with a 30 year old man sitting down a few yards away from her, and eating a snickers while he watches her drown

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

There's nothing compassionate about watching children throw away their lives or die while chanting the mantra of "personal responsibility"

I never said there was.


I'm all for private organizations, charities, churches, groups, etc reaching out and trying to help those that are need, trouble, have addictions, etc.

What I'm not for is the state coming in, damning those people with Three Strike bullshit laws, or damning other people by putting them in a horrible cycle of social welfare that gets people trapped.

[Galactic Gigolo]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

That 13 year olds can have an informed decision to end their life is exactly why libertarians pull in 0.6% on a good year

You see, people are full of compassion, love is the strongest emotion, just because you have locked away all these typed out these little usenet libertarian FAQs and shut off part of your human side does not mean most of us are willing or able to do such a thing

Government intervention solves everything

[Thorgrim]

Charities are localized and ethnically driven

A rich man in texas is far more like to give "charity" so his congregation can send more Bibles to Somalia, or his football program at Texas U/A&M can build a better weight room

What, homeless people in Baltimore are dying in cold, that's ridiculous, its 60 degrees today here in southern Texas!

Charitable donations would have to shoot up atleast 10x by each person, that's right, those already giving 10% of their income to charity would have to make it 100%, in order to meet federal charity numbers

That doesn't even take into account problems with logistics, if Hurricane Katrina destroyed another region, along with all their local charities, who would pay for billions of dollars in damages? How would charity workers in Indiana get to the coastline? How would all those charities, if it were even logistical possible to set up down there, and that's even based on them being created, be organized and directed? How would you stop 200 volunteers being in one district and 0 in the next?

It's a set of impossible tasks that local charities can not hope to solve

But, I'll note that you ignored my previous example on a lack of compassion with the little girl and the puddle

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

I gotta ask: what kind of weak minded fool has trouble NOT doing something? I mean, you have to go out of your way to toke on your deathstick. You KNOW the government is getting rich off your drug addiction. You KNOW the stuff is harmful to you, and provides no benefit whatsoever. It makes as much sense as shoving needles into your eyes, and bitching when the needle company makes them duller.

Your post sums up that you have no understand of addiction, or how an 11% increase in the levels makes the addiction stronger.

I can't even write anything because I'm unsure as how to talk to complete ignorance.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Charitable donations would have to shoot up atleast 10x by each person, that's right, those already giving 10% of their income to charity would have to make it 100%, in order to meet federal charity numbers

I guess all that government charity money comes from the money tree?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I guess all that government charity money comes from the money tree?

It comes from a well-organized progressive tax system, and that's why under the Clinton administration, hurricanes were sad set backs, not never-ending nightmares

It both shocks and amazes me that you think if we taxed you at 20% instead of 30%, you'd write off checks for poor kids to get presciption drugs in Seattle, the elderly nursing care in Tampa Bay, and disaster relief to all 50 states

Even if you did, it would never work, we'd need so many charities to pop up and then disputes would come up on who controls what in what instance, besides the obvious scams that we saw during 9/11, tsunami and hurricane katrina, private charities are notorious for administrative costs worse than the government, if not outright fraud

You'd end up spending more money in charity than it paid off, even if you decided to give more, which again is not certain, and eventually the private sector scams and misapproprations would get so severe you'd cut back to your local church, and then the whole system would collapse and 99% of the country would be clammoring for the government to step back in

[lew]

Private donations topped that of the government during the tsunami


lol, libertarians are so stupid lolz

[Galactic Gigolo]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You'd end up spending more money in charity than it paid off, even if you decided to give more, which again is not certain, and eventually the private sector scams and misapproprations would get so severe you'd cut back to your local church, and then the whole system would collapse and 99% of the country would be clammoring for the government to step back in

If I ever plan a libertarian function I'd like you to come and act as the comedian for the night. Don't try and be funny though. Just speak naturally, and the laughs will follow.

[Thorgrim]