Are murdering abortion clinic bombers terrorists?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What a master of slaves torturing his slave has to do with slavery...I have no idea

READ the chapter.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

READ the chapter.

I don't think you understand, Jesus himself never said "Slavery is great!" although the new testament does give props to slavery through Paul

However, he is recognizing the terrible moral sin, and using it in a regular story like there is nothing wrong about it

I have an idea, let me write several stories about issues X, and put them in the form of a story about an elderly man raping a toddler, but ofcourse, I won't say there's anything wrong with raping the toddler, it's just part of the story, the real deal is issue X.

You really think that's the right thing to do? To incorporate a great moral sin into a story and never actually reject it?

Brutal chattel slavery was SO COMMON and SO IN YOUR FACE that he easily included it as part of his stories to teach about various issues, but he refused to speak up about slavery itself, and he could easily have rejected it

[kinggovernor]

religion ftl

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I don't think you understand, Jesus himself never said "Slavery is great!" although the new testament does give props to slavery through Paul

However, he is recognizing the terrible moral sin, and using it in a regular story like there is nothing wrong about it

I have an idea, let me write several stories about issues X, and put them in the form of a story about an elderly man raping a toddler, but ofcourse, I won't say there's anything wrong with raping the toddler, it's just part of the story, the real deal is issue X.

You really think that's the right thing to do? To incorporate a great moral sin into a story and never actually reject it?

Brutal chattel slavery was SO COMMON and SO IN YOUR FACE that he easily included it as part of his stories to teach about various issues, but he refused to speak up about slavery itself, and he could easily have rejected it

He did reject it. He often spoke about setting captives free, how He brings freedom, etc.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

He did reject it. He often spoke about setting captives free, how He brings freedom, etc.

please, shower me with all his anti-slavery sermons

I mean, he wrote so much about giving to the poor, there must be tons of anti-slavery material

shoot

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

please, shower me with all his anti-slavery sermons

I mean, he wrote so much about giving to the poor, there must be tons of anti-slavery material

shoot

Jesus never spoke against AIDS. He must be for AIDS then, CHRISTIANITY IS SO STUPID LOLZZZZ!

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

Jesus never spoke against AIDS. He must be for AIDS then, CHRISTIANITY IS SO STUPID LOLZZZZ!

Oh yeah I remember the parable when jesus talks about AIDS, oh wait I don't because the world didn't know about aids then

However, I think Jesus knew about slaves, you know, the way he MENTIONS THEM CONSTANTLY


I understand, you thought Jesus spoke out against slavery "he did reject it", then you realized he didn't now you are trying to save face by saying something that doesn't make any sense in an insulting tone

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by lew

Depends upon who you ask.


If you believe abortion is a woman's right, then yes, it is terrorism.

If you believe abortion is actual murder of babies, then the "terrorist's" goal is a good one - in the same way that if any other person were murdering dozens and hundreds of people, then the person that stopped the murderer would be a hero.


The same situation can be applied to most Muslim and Jewish reasonings for terrorism - with a few exceptions.

Point is, morals can be relative.

Terrorism is a method and it has nothing to do with the validity of the cause or religious affiliations.

The intent is to instil terror to accomplish an end. Bombing abortion clinics is perhaps the textbook definition of terrorism.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Oh yeah I remember the parable when jesus talks about AIDS, oh wait I don't because the world didn't know about aids then

However, I think Jesus knew about slaves, you know, the way he MENTIONS THEM CONSTANTLY


I understand, you thought Jesus spoke out against slavery "he did reject it", then you realized he didn't now you are trying to save face by saying something that doesn't make any sense in an insulting tone

He doesn't mention them constantly. In fact, in most of His parables where He mentions workers, He speaks of free employers and free employees - in other words, a free market. He rarely speaks of slaves at all, actually. Paul spoke a lot more on slaves than Jesus.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

He doesn't mention them constantly. In fact, in most of His parables where He mentions workers, He speaks of free employers and free employees - in other words, a free market. He rarely speaks of slaves at all, actually. Paul spoke a lot more on slaves than Jesus.

I brought up several examples, and there is no reasonable argument that chattel slavery was not widespread and popular in 30BC Palestine, let alone that it didn't exist

Slavery did not get invented inbetween the gospel and paul's letters

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I brought up several examples, and there is no reasonable argument that chattel slavery was not widespread and popular in 30BC Palestine, let alone that it didn't exist

Slavery did not get invented inbetween the gospel and paul's letters

I didn't state it didn't exist. You claimed Jesus spoke about it constantly. That is a lie. He didn't.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

I didn't state it didn't exist. You claimed Jesus spoke about it constantly. That is a lie. He didn't.

I brought up at least 4 sections that revolve around masters and slaves, how many do I need before you care? I could go check and bring back 20 and you still wouldn't care

It's basic:

1) Jesus brought up the system of chattel slavery (Debt of one slave passes on to children and they are slaves as well)
2) Jesus uses multiple stories that bring slavery in to explain an issue, show it's widespread use
3) The type of slavery is not just chattel slavery, but also uses torture, as cited by Jesus (in one of my links)
4) Jesus did not speak out against this system, specifically that it should be abolished

Conclusion: If jesus would have commanded that all his followers must never own a slave or hold someone in perpetual servitude, hundreds of years of horrible slavery wouldn't have happened...the fact that he did no such thing shows either moral cowardice or intellectual shortsightedness, either way not a person worth following

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I brought up at least 4 sections that revolve around masters and slaves, how many do I need before you care? I could go check and bring back 20 and you still wouldn't care

It's basic:

1) Jesus brought up the system of chattel slavery (Debt of one slave passes on to children and they are slaves as well)
2) Jesus uses multiple stories that bring slavery in to explain an issue, show it's widespread use
3) The type of slavery is not just chattel slavery, but also uses torture, as cited by Jesus (in one of my links)
4) Jesus did not speak out against this system, specifically that it should be abolished

Conclusion: If jesus would have commanded that all his followers must never own a slave or hold someone in perpetual servitude, hundreds of years of horrible slavery wouldn't have happened...the fact that he did no such thing shows either moral cowardice or intellectual shortsightedness, either way not a person worth following

Jesus commanded to love your enemy and to not murder anyone. Yay, we've had hundreds of years of peace. But wait, we haven't.

Conclusion: Followers of Jesus do things Jesus never said do.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

Jesus commanded to love your enemy and to not murder anyone. Yay, we've had hundreds of years of peace. But wait, we haven't.

Conclusion: Followers of Jesus do things Jesus never said do.

jesus never said "don't sign up for army"

And Christians have condemned murders since it started

And you raise a good point, at least he tried to bring up "turn the other cheek" (which people took as personal not general) yet not a peep about slavery

Why? Most likely because Christians altered the words of a made-up person because a pro-slavery religion would have more success in the Roman Empire than an anti-slavery religion, moral cowardice for popularity

Either way, it's a disgrace and your excuses haven't been anything but a collection of "oh religion isn't perfect so who cares if Jesus ignored glaring moral problems"

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I brought up at least 4 sections that revolve around masters and slaves, how many do I need before you care? I could go check and bring back 20 and you still wouldn't care

but two of them HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SLAVERY. He is talking about God punishing the wicked.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

but two of them HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SLAVERY. He is talking about God punishing the wicked.

He is using the context of slavery to make the point

If they found a new passage in an old scroll from a first draft of Mark or something, and it said:

If Jesus went "And God shall punish those sinners, like a father who rapes his 6 year old daughter for disobeying him"

You'd go

But because you were raised hearing these slavery stories again and again, you think it's normal

It's not, its acceptance of a cruel and barbaric system

In many of these cases, Jesus is comparing God's rightful actions to the rightful actions of a slave-master

HOW CAN A SLAVE-MASTER BE DOING THE RIGHT THING? The only "right" thing for him to do is to free his slave

[Diamond Cross]

The Bible has passages that supports slavery:

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

For example.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

HOW CAN A SLAVE-MASTER BE DOING THE RIGHT THING? The only "right" thing for him to do is to free his slave

Why ?


What makes slavery wrong in your mind

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

He is using the context of slavery to make the point

If they found a new passage in an old scroll from a first draft of Mark or something, and it said:

If Jesus went "And God shall punish those sinners, like a father who rapes his 6 year old daughter for disobeying him"

You'd go

But because you were raised hearing these slavery stories again and again, you think it's normal

It's not, its acceptance of a cruel and barbaric system

In many of these cases, Jesus is comparing God's rightful actions to the rightful actions of a slave-master

HOW CAN A SLAVE-MASTER BE DOING THE RIGHT THING? The only "right" thing for him to do is to free his slave

This is silly, you obviously aren't christian and therefore, like many others, would consider the bible to be the work of man. As such, the time and place the bible was written in, slavery was commonplace and isn't any more out of place or cruel than slavery in, lets say, the Odyssey. Your thread had a reasonable premise and you've let one comment turn it into an insignificant banter.